Suggestion: More dynamic parrying through different parry types

Wicked Feedback
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Foreword

So there has been a lot of discussion about parrying recently:

Therefore, I decided to make a new topic that expends upon the current parry system. I have been working with some QCA Calibration recently and thought I borrow some logic there and apply it here.

With QCA Calibration there is the idea of Membership, translated to parrying this means:

Parry: YES or NO.

However, there are Degrees of Membership within QCA: Full, Mostly, Largely, Predominantly and Non. We could use this with parrying and create different types of parries:

  • Perfect Parry
  • Good Parry
  • Incomplete Parry
  • Failed Parry

Perfect, Good and Incomplete would all be successful parries, but have different effects and vary in effectiveness.

Current Parry System

Current Parry System

*The frames are there just to indicate how it works, they are not the exact frames obviously. So, don’t start a discussion about how it actually is X amount of frames…

Suggested Parry System

Suggested Parry System
Suggested Parry System584×524 8.64 KB

*the frames are based upon the previous 20/20/20 frame distribution and are, again, an example. Feel free to discuss the general idea.

Definition & Categorization of Successful Parry Types:

Failed Parry

You missed the parry timing, git gud mate :smirk:

  • Take full damage
  • Does NOT fill the stagger meter of the enemy.
  • Does NOT interrupt the enemies attack chain
  • Does NOT create a punishment window
  • Does NOT make a follow up riposte

Incomplete Parry

You are getting there, keep it up!

  • Take reduced damage
  • Fills the stagger meter of the enemy
  • Does NOT interrupt the enemies attack chain
  • Does NOT create a punishment window
  • Does NOT make a follow up riposte

Good Parry

Good job, however, you can still improve your timing!

  • Take no damage
  • Fills the stagger meter of the enemy
  • Interrupts the enemy attack chain
  • Creates a small punishment window
  • Does NOT make a follow up riposte

Perfect Parry

Fantastic job getting the timing perfect!

  • Take no damage
  • Fills the stagger meter of the enemy
  • Interrupts the enemy attack chain
  • Creates a medium punishment window
  • Make an automatic riposte

The Benefits:

  • By making the parry window broader, but with reduced effectiveness, parries become more forgiving.

  • Parries are more accessible to newer player and they are more incentivized to use and learn parries.

  • Parries have a higher skill ceiling which allows for more skill expression.

  • Parries have various categories, this means we can have more detailed and customizable affixes. Some affixes might expend upon the parry windows or trigger effects on ripostes; like runes.

  • This makes parrying and combat more dynamic.

  • Players who are often deterred from making a duelist character due to being bad at parry timings. Might now be persuaded to try a parry build as it is more accessible.

  • @Astont36 , suggested extending the parry system to the player as well. This would be really cool for PvP as it can create tense and reactive duels that reward perfect timing. (Feinting would be really cool to then bait a parry)

  • Different sound and visual effects for the various parries to make it feel more rewarding.

Edit: reworded some things to prevent confusion.

Edit 2: added a new benefit based upon the discussion.

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Sup Regular Person, I would also very much like to see more depth to the parrying system. I feel like it would make the combat even more dynamic. Referring back to how you believe combat is like a dance, I think adding a counter-attack would greatly enhance this aspect.

Also, I feel like you missed this in your original post: How would players identify when to “perfect parry” and such?

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hmm how do you mean that? doesn’t a stagger interrupt the enemies attacks? or would the stagger happen after their combo? i am a bit confused.

otherwise i can only vote for this, great suggestion/summary.

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Like it fills the stagger meter, I’ll update my OP since I think I can express myself better here.

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I think I already know what you mean.

If you don’t get a Perfect Parry then you add to their stagger bar. (but doesn’t stop their attack pattern)

If you do get a Perfect Parry you cause an instant stagger effect.

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Yeah, I want combat to be more dynamic. I also like how you remembered that I want it to be like a dance.

So depending on your parry timing you get different results. If you have an incomplete parry you just add to the stagger bar and the boss keeps on hitting you. But, if you then get a good parry, you stop the boss in his pattern and create a small window to punish as reward. That is how it is currently. And, then we add onto that perfect parries with a counter attack.

I’m not sure if there should be visual q’s to when to parry. But, different visual/sound effects for the different parry types would be really cool. Or maybe a general q that indicates that an attack is parryable.

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Have you considered the potential negative aspect that if you miss a parry, it could disrupt the flow of combat?

Have you thought about how failing a parry could cause the player to get staggered or at least add to the player’s stagger bar?

I think it would be really interesting if your parrying system applied to the player as well. For example, if the player gets Perfect Parried, the enemy can execute a complete attack pattern (e.g., three attacks before the player can re-engage). However, if the player’s attack is Good Parried, the player can attempt to parry again during the enemy’s attack pattern. In this scenario, the player might need to perform a Perfect Parry to disrupt and prevent the enemy’s attack pattern.

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There could be some punishments to failing a parry, I wouldn’t want them to be too taxing however. Sometimes the damage we take is enough as a punishment. Especially versus stronger enemies that can delete half your hp with an attack.

I think if it were to apply to the player then it would be really cool for PvP as it adds more depth. Imagine the amazing duels players would get into. I’ll add this suggestion to the benefits list :+1:

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When you say this it reminds me of Ghost of Tsushima and their stand-off mechanic where enemies feint attacks, It’s only minor but I think it would richen the dance of combat, especially in PvP.

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What are your thoughts on character and gear modifiers for the parry system? :slightly_smiling_face:

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please not more “on parry” enchantments or perks :see_no_evil:

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I do hope with the coming talent tree that there are parry specific talents.

And to avoid overlap between topics too much, I will limit myself to my suggested parry system and not talk about parry affixes in general.

I do think with my suggested system. That there will be more depth to parrying affixes. Since we can get various affixes for the different parry types. Maybe an affix that increases the failed parry window but makes perfect parries more powerful. Or a talent that allows us to use a rune special on a perfect parry instead of riposte.

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Die you come up with this on your own, or did you read the discussion you weren‘t supposed to engage with? :joy:

In any case, simple functional suggestion, will include it in my polls to be sure.

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I was talking with you in another topic, and I was working with some QCA Callibration this week. Then it just hit me and I combined them :joy:

I really cba with reading all those walls of text in that certain topic :sweat_smile:

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Sadly I tend to try to address every point sincerely (even if the others don‘t). Even when trying to not go into much detail… Many walls were built. :upside_down_face:

I try to make the polls more digestible and take my time with them. :wink:

Hopefully clicking options and seeing numbers go up help with the tolerance and attention span - It sure does for me.

Nice illustrations btw :ok_hand:

And how do you get the nice looking headers?

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These ones are ‘‘Blockquotes’’, the ‘’ symbol.

For me it depends on the person. If I know them and have had good discussions in the past I’ll reciprocate and address every point properly.

Where is your poll btw? Since I didn’t see it.

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Thank you for the info :pray: Though I created this using > … “” Didn’t work for me …

Poll is not up yet, I want to do a collect poll for different possible kinds of tweaks and evolitions of the parry mechanic.

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Well, another “make parry easier” thread. My expected few cents:

Current Parry System is good.

Failed Parry

  • Take full damage

Not Failed Parry (only if attack is parryable)

  • Take no damage
  • maybe stagger depending on enemy/attack (the only addition I’d maybe consider is the system from ER where more than 1 consecutive parry is required to stagger tougher enemies - e.g. 3 for Malenia there)
  • maybe interrupt chain depending on enemy/attack
  • the riposte is rune attack; balancing should go into crazy rune attack power and focus regain (by parry itself and other means)

By making the parry window broader, but with reduced effectiveness, parries become more forgiving.

Parries have a higher skill ceiling which allows for more skill expression.

And the skill floor on the other end is so relaxed it’s de-facto infallible. The whole mechanic overall becomes easier and more boring, where you occasionally score a bonus “carrot” w/o really caring much about it - as there is no “stick” in the first place anymore.

Parries are more accessible to newer player and they are more incentivized to use and learn parries.

Why do you assume new players are inherently bad / lazy and require this kind of handholding ?

I’d recommend watching some streams, where new players pick up parry right off the bat w/o much issues.

Players who are often deterred from making a duelist character due to being bad at parry timings. Might now be persuaded to try a parry build as it is more accessible.

I’d stop trying to babysit bad/lazy players. Or using them as a generic excuse to make the (already easy) game easier.

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Well, another post where you fail in the reading comprehension department.

This suggestion doesn’t make parrying easier. If you think that you failed to understand the suggestion.

If adding more depth to parries is more boring you must enjoy simplicity. None of your arguments make sense.

Also I’m not assuming players want handholding, neither does this suggestion imply that. This suggestion makes parrying more appealing to newer players and more skilled players. It is fine if you don’t understand that.

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I think you fail to understand what “making the parry window broader” means.