I see the parry system op when mastered, but if the system were based on certain attributes like strength, dexterity and also the weapon being used compared to the enemy’s weapon and attributes would tell how much damage you absorbed and if it was really high then the enemy will get staggered.
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You are exactly right!
Didn’t think of questioning it, but my personal issues with parrying in games are usually that its too tough to pull of without much practice, thus not alot of players are able to use it effectively. And that in contrast, when you can pull it of, its usually very overpowered.
Would be great to make parrying easier or more predictable, with for example colorcoding and make it more effective if you invest in it, rather than it being op from the start.
I agree, right now it is (while kind of balanced) very high on the risk-reward scale. It would be nice to have it a little more lowered for both, so it gets a little more useful for “normal” players.
Maybe when a skill tree is added or enchantments are rolled out further, this might be one thing to gradually increase. That means in the beginning, parrying is only a fraction of what it is rn. That would mean if you invest in parrying via skill tree / items / enchantments, it becomes extremely strong, but only with enough investment.
I think the srews one could turn are:
- timing window
- dmg avoidance (maybe in % of total dmg, so not depending on dmg) however this should be quite high from the start already
- inflicted status
- inflicted status time
- reflected dmg
- vulnerability window after parry
- free rune activation by parry
- and maybe the button could be the same as for blocking imho, so that as a fallback solution one has the blocking half of the time when one misses the timing
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- timing window
Please, parry is already is banal and at the same time ludicrously overpowered (like, you can remove good 20%+ chunk of EK health bar with one riposte).
Making it any more easier would make it too banal and too boring.
Thats not what I wrote 
If you think that it is too easy, then what about an easier weaker parry, but with a small perfect parry window, that is even more tight than the current one?
→ Make more players able to engage with the parry mechanic, while still raising the skill ceiling instead of lowering it.
Would have the side benefit, that the players that are not good at parrying are able to learn and potentially get as good as you xD
Edit: I can already see the satisfying golden spark animation with a PLING… 
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Why not just learn the current timings and animations ? Like … what’s stopping people to do so ? Just laziness ?
Because it is very high on risk and reward… meaning:
high risk
high reward
As a consequence, lowering both would be a good idea given the opinions at hand.
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Very high reward - sure, risk though ? Mediocre at most.
Ok, lets give you a list of possible reasons, players might not engage with the mechanic as is:
- Too tough to pull off at all - especially for players with lower skill level, physical capabilities, input lag or bad performance
- Not intuitive - Learning and mastering the technique vs inconsistent animations requires practice and dedication, which is currently not intuitive
- Too unreliable/inconsistent - Even when pull it if off somewhat consistently, results may vary, depending on the enemy, environment and state of the player
- Failure is too punishing → Risk vs Reward is not there
- Not an attractive playstyle - People simply may not like the parry mechanic baseline, if its easier to pull off baseline and not that strong, people might change their minds
- Disruption of game flow - Focusing on tight parry windows and animations diverts attention from other parts of the gameplay, that may be more interesting; Currently effective strong parries interrupt the flow of combat very strongly, might be less intrusive if parry is easier but not that strong
- Other forms of opportunity-cost → While you are mastering and utilizing the parry mechanic (which currently requires investment), you aren’t engaging with other parts of the game, which again, might be more interesting to you
- Distance between Immersion and mechanics - If parry timing is too technical, it can draw from the immersion of the game
- Requires resources to practice - If you rely on food to heal, you have to stock up just to be able to practice the mechanic
- Community perception - If current parrying is perceived as OP, one might simply not like to use it simply because of that fact
- No nuance, might not fit with the character identity - If parrying does not scale or a weaker version does not exist, one is either a parry god or not, there is no in between, If you want to play a duelist and lack the skill to pull of parrying ur Skill clashes with the characters identity in the game, works the other way around as well
- Past experiences - players would avoid the mechanic shortly after trying because of past experiences with similar mechanics in other games, rightfully so
- Too strong baseline - If the parry mechanic once mastered consistently allows you to bypass a lot of the mechanics of the game, it can ruin the perceived strength of other abilities / gear / gameplay overall
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Very interesting points!
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Have thought about this quite a bit actually. Personally I would love to engage more with the parry mechanic, but not as is, because of many of these reasons.
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Most (if not all) of this list are excuses for the sake of excuses. A lot is flat out factually wrong as well (“too punishing”, “too tough”, “non intuitive”, “tight window”, “Requires resources”, “either a parry god or not” etc.).
Then start engaging, simple as that.
I did engage with the mechanic. My first build focused on parry, for the first half of the game. But as it is now, it is currently not fun. And that is not because i am unable to pull it off.
You can’t invalidate all arguments against an unfun gameplay mechanic with “get gud”.
Edit: If you want an honest discussion, talk about each point individually instead of making accusations. And if you make accusations you should back them. Also its pretty bold to claim arguments, that are mostly based on human perception and reaction times are factually wrong.
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No!
I can only speak for myself here. But I did!
The animations and the parry window are very short and not intuitive. For that reason I simply learned them by heart… by just actively parrying until dying for multiple enemies and their multiple attacks (with each having its own timing). Repair, rinse repeat.
There are people who are not as stubborn as me and simply do not want to do that because… and this is the important point… it is lame!
Sure I can parry most things now.
But is it fun… no! One cannot parry everything due to what feels like inconsistencies in the timings. For me that does not feel rewarding. I would be much happier with some less “ludicrously overpowered” result (your own words), but more consistency in the parrying.
Also parrying makes most sense for a tank build rn because a tank can deal with the misses… a “thief” not so much. And that feels wrong.
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I don’t like the current parry system. I don’t like having to learn what I can and can’t parry by trial and error due to the high opportunity cost in certain cases. Some visual que would be nice so you can learn on the fly what you can and can’t parry.
That being said, once you get the hang of the parry system I find the rewards to be too much. I’d much rather have a wider parry timing with reduced effectiveness and a potential for a perfect parry which results into a riposte; that could be the current timing.
Then maybe some talents and enchants that work of off ripostes and parries. Not just static effects like +X Heat damage. Maybe a temporary buff or state after a parry.
I don’t feel like parrying is that much of a fun playstyle, vs Warrick you can parry reliably and trivialize the entire encounter. I would like more to parrying than what it currently is.
Excuse me, but @msoltyspl, when someone is giving you a lot of their time by engaging in a discussion it is quite disrespectful to not give them an appropriate response. It is easy to act like a fool and make empty statements. You are arguing in bad faith. To throw your own words back at you: ‘‘start engaging’’.
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I have said this a long time ago. The parry window is so inconsistent. I have seen a ton of posts that voice this concern. If it is implemented to have a bigger window of time and the animations match when the time to parry would be, then it would be in a much better place.
The risk is huge when fighting bosses (i.e., Echo Knight).
I literally just roll dodge everything because of how awful the parry timing/animation to connect is currently implemented.
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I gave the response, and made a video showing his player-wise parry “problems” are bs. Most people wouldn’t bother.
That list for the most part is excuses for the sake of excuses, full of subjectvity (coming down to: i don’t like to learn parrying, i don’t like to parry => therefore every player is like me) and overall “I don’t want to put time into learning”, “parry too hard for me”.
Should I make a 1 hour long video on “how tough parry is” to further show that there is nothing wrong with parry “pull out” department ?
But ok, let’s pick this list point by point (which frequently reiterates same stuff in different words).
-
“Too tough to pull off at all …”
you can watch my vid above how “tough” it is; it’s a matter of learning (and customizing your inputs, defaults both on kb/m and controller are very bad) - that’s how it is here and in every other game having parry mechanic
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“Not intuitive - Learning and mastering the technique vs inconsistent animations requires practice and dedication, which is currently not intuitive”
what inconsistent animations ? and yes, parry should require some practice and dedication; and the process is obvious and intuitive
-
“Too unreliable/inconsistent - Even when pull it if off somewhat consistently, results may vary, depending on the enemy, environment and state of the player”
perfectly reliable and consistent; in this game the “varying” is borderline nonexisting (some exceptions like thos tall guys can’t be staggered, but everything except their grab can be parried)
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“Failure is too punishing → Risk vs Reward is not there”
rewards are insane (guaranteed rune attack, most staggered enemies can be backstabbed, focus/hp/stamina recovery, damage on parry) - this probably will get a nerf bat in the future; risk is laughable - a bit of hp lost, sometimes brief stagger
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“Not an attractive playstyle - People simply may not like the parry mechanic baseline, if its easier to pull off baseline and not that strong, people might change their minds”
purely subjective; substitute ‘people’ for ‘I’; and it’s ok, you have other options available in the game; the game shouldn’t be dumbed down for people to change their mind to do something, when something requires some effort
-
“Disruption of game flow - Focusing on tight parry windows and animations diverts attention from other parts of the gameplay, that may be more interesting; Currently effective strong parries interrupt the flow of combat very strongly, might be less intrusive if parry is easier but not that strong”
first - parry windows are not tight but generous, can we stop with this nonsense ?; second - wtf are you even about here ? Obviously you should be focused on the enemy and his animation if you want to parry
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“Other forms of opportunity-cost → While you are mastering and utilizing the parry mechanic (which currently requires investment), you …”
when you are gathering materials you are not engaging with other parts of the games either; when you are dodging, you are missing parry fun; and so on …
-
“Distance between Immersion and mechanics - If parry timing is too technical, it can draw from the immersion of the game”
it’s neither too techincal (translation: I imagine that window is too tight) nor breaking immersion in any way or form
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“Requires resources to practice - If you rely on food to heal, you have to stock up just to be able to practice the mechanic”
the whole game requires resources for a lot of things, let’s remove that as well; that aside - what’s wrong with stacking some to do in game (not that you need much food here) ? What’s next, “stacking food for crucible is bad” ?
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“No nuance, might not fit with the character identity - If parrying does not scale or a weaker version does not exist …”
if it doesn’t fit your RP imaginations, don’t parry; parry is not supposed to be scaled; parry is supposed to be learnt and applied; in the same when as you learn enemies when to dodge and safely hit them with big slow weapons
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“Past experiences - players would avoid the mechanic shortly after trying because of past experiences with similar mechanics in other games, rightfully so”
that’s those players’ problems; are you really arguing “oh those poor players, couldn’t be arsed to parry in <some ‘souls’ game>, let’s dumb it down here so they finally use it !”
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“Too strong baseline - If the parry mechanic once mastered consistently allows you to bypass a lot of the mechanics of the game, it can ruin the perceived strength of other abilities / gear / gameplay overall”
“Community perception - If current parrying is perceived as OP, one might simply not like to use it simply because of that fact”as with everything in the game, as of the current state it allows wicked builds and cheesing; a lot of stuff needs nerf bats (perhaps including parry rewards, but not parry timings)
Anyway, if it doesn’t work figure out why it doesn’t work for you - because if it works very well for many other people, then the issue is with whatever you are doing in the game, not with the game (optimization issues aside, like the game being a massive cpu hog, potentially causing input lag issues for some people). If you still don’t want / cannot - use dodging, blocking, ranged combat.
I have said this a long time ago. The parry window is so inconsistent. I have seen a ton of posts that voice this concern. If it is implemented to have a bigger window of time and the animations match when the time to parry would be, then it would be in a much better place.
The window is perfectly consistent. If it was bigger, it would be far too easy (read: practically infallible).
The risk is huge when fighting bosses (i.e., Echo Knight).
Update your armor if you want too learn to parry EK. Tooke me few rounds as well (as it should) before I got into correct rhythm.
I literally just roll dodge everything because of how awful the parry timing/animation to connect is currently implemented.
Block/Dodge-only is a valid approach as well.