14 hours of suggestions and questions (Ray Dolce)

TL;DR- Suggesting parry canceling, a more informative/transparent understanding of weapon types and camera controls.

Hey everybody,

Hoping the dev team reads this. If anyone has counterpoints, something to add or I may have said something that was said in another post, please feel free to chime in. I like this game a lot and I want it to see it succeed.

  1. Parry canceling
    I noticed that during a combo, some of the weapons are locked into an animation that cannot be canceled out of.
    For example with the chipped daggers, if I press the attack button once, I do a single swipe animation that will allow me parry immediately after. However, if I press the attack button again, I’m locked into a 3 swipe animation (about 2 seconds long) that prevents me from parrying until the animation is complete. The timing is very crucial because if I commit to that second attack button press, 9/10 times the enemy will not be stunned and they’ll carry on with their own attack. Dodging would seem like the most logical step but is rendered useless if said enemy has a far reach or I’m surrounded.
    If possible, I’d like to see the ability to cancel out of an attack animation be implemented by parrying or at least be able stretch out the attack animation by just allowing more attack button presses, thus giving us the ability to parry in between each press.

  2. Weapons-to-stat scale consistency
    Going through a lot the weapon types in my playthrough, I noticed that weapons in the same category would scale off of one or two stats. As a long time rpg player, I’m sadly conditioned to think that when I see a sword, I should scale with STR, dagger should scale with DEX, staves should scale with INT, etc. I can work past this line of thinking, but the problem is that when I come across a new weapon type that I’d like to try (ex: rapiers and scythes), I can’t use it because I’ve already invested into stats that compliment my current weapon.
    In the case of weapons of the same type, if I’ve already invested a lot of points into DEX in order to scale off of the double dagger weapon “Brother’s Keepers” and then I pick up “chipped daggers”, I now have to scale off of STR as well and meet the stat requirements to equip that weapon. In other words, in order to equip “chipped daggers”, I now have to spend two levels worth of points (it requires 16 in both STR and DEX) and what is, or now was, a pretty intense grinding session. So what exactly is the problem? The player’s inability to anticipate stat growth can ruin the flow of the game.
    I only have a few suggestions for this. My first one would be to restructure the stat requirements so that each weapon type requires one stat to be higher than the other (ex: chipped daggers require 16 in DEX but 13 in STR). My second solution is to just throw in a glossary/npc that will explain what stats you need to put points into for each weapon type. My third solution would be to just have all weapon types readily available at the beginning of the game and let the player make the choice. Regardless of the solution, there has to be some kind of consistency when putting stats into a build. If I put points into STR and INT for “Jaded Spined Axe” then at best, I should be anticipating that the next one-handed axe to also requires STR and INT.

  3. Camera controls, maybe?
    Real quick and short. I understand the camera viewpoint is inspired by Diablo (correct me if I’m wrong) but what I find is that often times I run across enemies that are off screen, possibly obscured by another enemy. Would it be possible implement a panorama-camera view that centers around your character? I like the top-down perspective a lot and I appreciate the environment but given how intense fights can be, I wonder if giving control of the camera to player can leverage combat and exploration in their favor.

And that’s all I have. Shout out to Moon Studios for carrying the whole platforming genre on their back. Glad to see they’re working on ARPG’s. This game is already picking up a lot positive traction in the community and I can only hope that they put some of these AAA studios to shame.

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Hello. I would like to say this:)
1 - as intended. There are many weapons, they behave differently and have different effects. Some have long animations, some have short ones. You need to know the features of your weapon and think when to use it and how. This is not a clicker. Alas.
You just need to find “your” weapon.

2 - yes, you are not alone. This will be changed in some way in the future. Thomas has already said that they will rework the stats, maybe they will finally give a respec.

3 - I’m not sure if this is feasible. We saw that the camera generally works vertically. But the peculiarity of isometrics, often (not always, there are games with free movement) is that the map and objects on it are projected at one camera angle, and if you start moving, everything will break :slight_smile: I don’t know if this is true here, just an assumption .
A matter of habit, I suppose, now I have no problems with this.

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Thanks for your response! With regards to my suggestions, it’s tough knowing what was intentional and what isn’t. Aside from optimization issues, the game is really good. I’m very doubtful that my third suggestion (the camera view) would be virtually possible but I’m glad to see that I’m not alone on my second suggestion. I hope I articulated everything well.

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1.) I appreciate this but I think the issue is more that it turns a single or double attack opportunity into a 3-4 attack. When you already have a tough enemy with small openings for attacks it just drags out a fight unnecessarily. Shield enemies are a prime example. they block your second attack but I find that if I attack even once (or a second attack that moves from one enemy to another) I get stunned. I realise you can with some enemies dodge the incoming attack but it just feels like you have less control over what your character does.

2.) The forum is so busy I may have missed this somewhere but has there been an indication of what the new system will be? I imagined this was a global issue (as we all like a new weapon!).

3.) I feel the issue here is more that the ‘cut away’ of scenery doesn’t always work as well as I would like. you often still have a large portion of the screen hidden by foreground or background scenery. Also it’s more of an issue when moving off to one of the sides and especially when moving towards the bottom of the screen. It feels like your character is too close to the sides or bottom.

yes, we can only guess)

Shield enemies - backstab and no problem.
While at a distance, all enemies with shields make a dash, and then rest for a couple of seconds - kill him in the back.
There are options: when he starts to hit, you can make a dash to the side and make 1 short hit (the first).
I tried the coral spear, it does 3 (or 4?) hits with one press of the button, 3 hits with the second press, and 1 fast puncture with the third press. And I need to think very carefully about when to strike and when not to.
I didn’t like it :slight_smile: Because all his hits are circular, and I want to play puncture with a spear for all atack.

Thomas is very active in X. For example, here is his response to a message from one person


And he writes a lot of interesting things there, for example

This is a problem, yes, when the environment blocks the view. I’m pretty sure they’re working on it

I realise this. They were just an example where I attack once and I end up caught in an animation that has 2-3 strikes. I am trying to get a sneaky one hit in before I move on to different attacks. This is the same for some of the bigger enemies or the bosses as well where I hit more than I intend.

I apricate the linking of the X replies I had seen them somewhere a while ago but wondered if anyone had seen any more info on what their plan is. I am not the kind of player that has 3, 4 or even 5 other characters (even when I played Diablo I had maybe 2) so being stat locked to a particular weapon (not even weapon group as they have different requirements) is a downside for me. For instance I have had 4 gold weapon drops and I haven’t been able to use a single one as my stats didn’t meet the requirements. I was using the double daggers, then chipped daggers (same the OP) and then got a spear and couldn’t use it as I was STR and DEX build and it needed INT (I think).

Also on a side note spear are a disappointment. They are so slow whereas spear enemies are quick. There is a massive windup on them. Maybe this was just the spear I used.

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I have never seen Thomas give accurate information)
He has a lot of thoughts, but he won’t share them in vain.

When the time comes, we will know everything.

A spear that requires 42 dex and another 26 str and 26 dex make puncture attacks. First one make many atack on stage 3.

I found this channel, you can see how any weapon behaves in the playlist

Thanks for that. I have kind of stopped playing as I would like to wait for full release now (stop me getting burned out on it and I have around 100 games that have been shouting for my attention!). I have around 31hrs in the game currently and have been banging my head against the crucible enough to know I need to wait. I will be keeping an eye on the forums though as there are a lot of people with good ideas on here.

I do find it interesting how many people have ideas on what this game is (soulike and ARPG) and what they want brought from these games. Some people want more soulslike influence and others a more ARPG experience. The devs can be confident though as most seem to be quite excited by the game.

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