I think the game needs to add some finishers when you perform a perfect counter + when you empty their stamina bar
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The game already explicitly does that; after you parry an enemy you typically gain 100 focus, enabling you to perform a Rune attack of your choice
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Do you have reading problems, or is your understanding that bad? You may want to read a bit more before writing next time. The issue is that the game lacks finishers/ripostes, not that you can’t do anything on stunned enemies. He is right; having some seconds to attack a stunned enemy is not the same as performing a riposte on them.
Almost all games with a stunned/exposed mechanic has that, Sekiro, Elden Ring,First berserker Khazan, AI Limit, Code Vein and many many more.
This game has a backstab mechanic so why not a riposte mechanic too? Some of those backstab animation can very well be used as finishers as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LieAkxUnwr8
Please Read More Carefully Next Time.
This discussion is coming up every now and then, the most comprehensive one being this one: Suggestion: More dynamic parrying through different parry types
maybe we can keep these suggestions together? should i combine the threads. I don’t think its helpful to have the same issue discussed in multiple threads.
and on topic: i 100% agree, see here: Suggestion: More dynamic parrying through different parry types - #39 by Chemile0n
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I heard that the parry is going to be reworked, at least in terms of sound and appearance, so that parrying feels better, more like in Elden Ring or Sekiro, but I don’t think it will work that way.
Aside from the fact that it’s a core mechanic in Sekiro that most players can’t ignore, it’s definitely a high-risk, high-reward mechanic like in all from soft games.
At the moment, the parry in nRftW is obviously closer to Elden Ring or Dark Souls than to Sekiro, but in my opinion, it’s not a high-risk, high-reward mechanic. It’s difficult to parry, but the only guaranteed reward is focus. However, at the beginning, you might not even have the runes you want to use, and later on, you can easily get focus without parrying.
In from soft games, the parry might look defensive, but it’s actually a very powerful aggressive tool. If three enemies attack you at once in Dark Souls, you can parry one, The extended frame mechanic might automatically parry even more enemies, giving you a better chance of getting in the follow-up attack, which not only deals massive damage, but also keeps you safe in the attack animation, which gives you time to consider how to proceed and also gives you the opportunity to position yourself better afterwards, for example.
In nRftW, if you parry an enemy and then try to attack them, all other enemies will immediately attack you. They’ll shoot at you, throw bombs, or try to run you down. but your not safe. So, of course, it’s much more likely that you’ll have to trade Damage after a successful parry, or you’ll even be interrupted in your attack or even pushed out of a rune attack. And that just doesn’t feel like a high reward.
I suspect Moon Studios doesn’t actually want to copy the parry mechanics one-to-one, but if they want to create a feeling as strong as from soft parries do, they should, in my opinion. But i dont know.
Sorry… I know it’s too long and in bad English.
Relatively new here with about 25 hours in game. I am loving the game and most of its mechanics. I am actually pretty happy with the way parries work at this time. It takes some practice and specific timing to pull off, and better yet, worse enemies have better telegraphing on their attacks so it’s easier to parry them compared to larger and tougher enemies that have wild combos, long windups, etc . . .
One thing I would really like to see, is a riposte after parry. It could even be the same animation as the backstab, but doing it from the front after a parry makes you feel like you really earned that critical attack, and it’s just badass. Now I have read through some discussions from the past that said they had a riposte at one point, but removed it because it was just used over and over again instead of rune attacks/other options. However, what I do now on many enemies is parry, then run around to their back, and backstab them. Which just seems a little silly and immersion breaking when they are all exposed after a parry, just asking to get stabbed through the chest. Also, why run around and backstab after a parry when a really well placed dodge can put you in a perfect backstab location mid combat? Which cuts down a significant portion of the risk that comes from a parry.
My proposed solution is to have the riposte only possible on enemies that can be backstabbed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but from all the enemy types I’ve seen so far, only about 50% of them can be backstabbed. With this, the parry has a great reward for those weaker enemies that you can run around and backstab anyways, and still has a great use for those bigger and tougher enemies, since they get staggered and you still gain focus.
I’d rather have it stay as it is, giving you enough focus to land any rune attack of your choice. More fun, more flexible.
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Agree with this take, runes ARE your riposte. Also you can just circle around and backstab enemies in their recovery animation from being parried.
Otherwise it’s quite literally just sekiro. A game I couldn’t even be bothered to playthrough after being lulled into bordem after the first few area and boss fight. It was just the same fatality animation after parry over and over and over and over… The variety in Wicked is much appreciated.
I do think that’s good and gives a great benefit for those tougher enemies, but the focus gain to land a rune attack is only thinking one fight at a time. The way I think about it, and will probably always think about it, is why waste my focus to finish this staggered enemy when I can just backstab them and save that focus for the next fight which may be with a tougher enemy? Maybe I’ll need that focus at the start of the fight, or maybe I’ll parry them too, to pull off multiple rune attacks.
Are you saying that having a riposte option makes players feel obligated to execute it, when a backstab option doesn’t? I can kinda see that; however, that becomes partly solved by not being able to riposte half the enemies.
i moved this here, u can also check this where i linked another thread about the topic: Improving parring and adding finishers - #4 by Chemile0n
i moved this here. u can also check this: Improving parring and adding finishers - #4 by Chemile0n
where i linked another thread about this topic
A rune attack is not the same as a riposte for the simple reason that ripostes are instant and uninterruptible in practice, whereas rune attacks are not.
If you’re fighting 3 enemies and parry one, in another game the riposte gives you frames and you might even smack everyone surrounding the enemy.
In this game, if you parry, only the parried enemy is affected, you will still be hit and staggered by other incoming attacks, and rune attacks such as spells are highly vulnerable to getting staggered out of.
Homing Frost as an example takes about 1 second to cast even without charging it to 2nd or 3rd level.
Plague Splatter or Pestilence take closer to 2 seconds as your character seems to first do a swing and then jump into the air with a delay before smashing down.
These are long times of vulnerability to stagger.
Now, if parry were improved by giving you iframes for like 2-3 seconds as a reward, we’d be having a different conversation.
Some Japanese action rpg games like Granblue Fantasy Relink actually do this; perfect dodges (dodges timed just right) grant a small iframe period, and perfect guards (parries) not only grant iframes but immediately fill the enemy stun bar, which this game does but without the iframes.
So just give successful parry iframes.
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Haha we’ll probably disagree then because Sekiro was one of my favorite games of all time. I think I stopped playing on NG+7.
Don’t get me wrong though, I don’t want NRFTW to be Sekiro, I appreciate its uniqueness. One thing I would add to that; if runes are the riposte, then I would expect focus to deplete to 0 outside of combat, and maybe have a slightly higher gain rate in combat.
Like the might meter in Middle Earth: Shadow of War. It would be gained in combat to pull off special skills or executions. They also had a sub-skill that you could toggle on/off at will to drastically increase the might gain, with the drawback being that it instantly depletes to 0 outside of combat.
I think something like that would be cool to have as an option for focus.
That way melee players can pull off more moves in combat, while other types like casters/archers may want to save up focus so they can go all out at the start of a fight., or vice versa.
i agree and i said it i think at least 10 times. watching my focus bar fill does absolutely nothing to me. if i want to use a rune i can do so at any given time. it is not a worthy reward for a unique combat action.
what parrying is missing is something that rewards u for accomplishing something tricky and tactical. parry should be distinguished from dodge or block, and not just by reducing dmg or filling a bar.
when u play pure melee without runes, u get absolutely nothing out of a parry. mostly they are not even staggered long enough to backstab or do anything meaningful, as your character sometimes just decides to attack anything but the enemy.
and the chance for a backstab is also not a real riposte. a riposte should be something u can ONLY use when parrying. a unique reward. be it an automatic melee counter like in BB or dark souls, an enemy debuff like in WoW or a character buff like in monster hunter.
Yes this is another huge aspect. Multiple enemies. You parry one and they’re out of the fight for a second, but in many cases you have to start fighting the others before you can pull off any rune attacks.
Maybe if after a parry you glow for a couple seconds or the duration that they’re staggered, and in that time you have i-frames to pull off a rune skill. Since in many fights you don’t have time to pull off charged rune skills at their full charge.
While focus can be your riposte it also serves another functions. If it drained entirely out of combat I think it’d be a to the games detriment.
Tbh I don’t even play with a super high focus meter I rely on parry for build up and even then it all being lost between engagements I wouldn’t I’m e in favor of.
I don’t fully understand your statement tho. If focus goes to 0 out of combat archers would have none to start the fight and it wouldn’t work as you say, no?
Oh no absolutely it would mess up many players playstyles. I’m suggesting that maybe there could be an option to have a really high focus gain with the drawback being that it goes to 0 outside of combat.
This could just be a personal thing, but for me, I’ll run around all day with a full focus bar and won’t use any rune attacks until I reach a tough enemy or boss. If it went to 0 outside of combat, I would use those rune attacks in every fight.
Oh yeah honestly I could get behind that if it was optional. That’s how I play anyways. Parry with high focus gain and counter.
That said, mobs fall over to 1-2 runes and my combos are more built around weapon and rune combinations. That’s why I love Icebreaker so much. Ice breaker with turnback kick is phenomenal movement.
Edit:
Which is to say there’s not a huge amount of focus needed to combo 200 works, 300 is in excess for carrying some from fight to fight
Yea it would definitely be helpful with a playstyle like that. Then you get the point of knowing how many normal hits/ parries it takes to pull off rune attacks. Maybe with 1 parry and a couple hits you would have the focus needed to pull off that long combo with 2 rune attacks. Whereas with the option to carry focus like normal, it takes 2 parries and 3 hits to have the focus required (I’m just making up numbers as an example).
Yea I agree, there should be a unique reward. Maybe right after a parry, rune attacks can be launched twice as fast or something. That would make for some cool effects, and maintain the “rune attacks are the riposte” idea.