What P3, P4 ?
He has 2 phases, or do you split P1 and P2 into some subphases ?
Either way, there is nothing special about his second (non-horse) phase.
Pestilence 1, 2, 3 and 4.
He can spawn as a boss and without the Crucible echoes, in P3 heâs challenging and very hard to deal with in P4 if youâre going for a melee showdown.
I fought him few times as a maxed pestilence boss (so 4+10/10). Besides him spawning 8 fires instead of 4 during the horse phase, the phase after feels pretty much the same as in crucible. From pure str 42+ character perspective, so no ranged stuff. And no cheese bs either.
Thereâs no reason not to keep the hardest difficulty of the crucible for those who want it. But the Echo Knightâs difficulty is completely detached from everything preceding it in the crucible stages. The difficulty jump is a hockey stick graph as it is. Having different tiers of difficulty with appropriate rewards for the hardest would be the play to make.
If youâre trying to sound like a big dick gamer, just donât.
If youâve actually fought him on P3 and P4 where the player is debuffed and boss is buffed vs. the Crucible where the player is buffed and the boss is debuffed then you would know the fights are nothing alike.
In P3 and P4 the fight will go on much longer even if you have your mechanics down to a tee. Leaving very little room for error.
The mechanics are the same, but itâs not the same premises.
Iâm not in favour of making easy, but at least I can acknowledge the level difficulty involved in killing him in P3 and P4.
I only play on maxed pestilence with whatever random debuffs I get, as otherwise the game is boring when you have the gear upgraded, not mentioning upgraded and exalted (which I do have). At least I die from time to time this way.
Itâs not a matter of âsounding like a big dickâ, itâs the reality of the current endgame. Sure P4 is nasty for a fresh âjust finished storyâ character. Not so much for a fully upgraded mesh armor melee character.
P4 (and 10/10) on any other map than Meadows or Lowlands are a complete nothing-burger due to infested areas capping at 26 (shallows, mariner, orban) or 28 (nameless, trench).
That to say my game revolves around âparry everything you canâ followed by a rune attack. And rolls on my gear do have specific parry bonuses. For bosses I tend to use 2H weapon. So, my perspective can be quite skewed.
I can make a vid how EK feels in my case, but it will be a while until I get him again in a proper zone (capping 30).
Your experience does not represent the majority of peopleâs experience in P3 or P4 who donât have min maxed gear.
True insight is seeing it from their perspective and forming an objective opinion. Not, Iâm not having a problem, therefore there exists none.
I have 3 maxed out characters, all through the Crucible run and Echo Knight in Crucible is not the same boss as P3 or P4 because of debuffs and lack of echoes to help the average player.
Iâll give you a solid example. He often starts his phase1 in P3-4 with casting fire on the ground, up to 12 hits that if you do not have the damage to stagger him out of his case, will most like cover a chunk of the ground youâre fighting on. Add to that the buff that reduces damage taken at high health + regen and itâs already a different fight than Crucible.
Iâve already responded to this pedantic argument, read above.
And if you think there would be no negatives, then that unfortunately, is a failing of your own imagination.
If the player rolls in panic like a madman, sure (which most players do to their demise). That to say, I think I got him so far 3-4 times so far in P4 as a boss. He has always did exactly 8 blue fires (as opposed to 4 in regular crucible). But Iâve never seen him do 12.
I donât have min-maxed gear. But itâs leveled up and has some important effects I wanted it to have. Festering Earth is also an amazing riposte weapon.
Among the bosses, EK is one of the best punching bags too bully with parry+rune repeatedly - with beautifully well telegraphed attacks. To each his own though.
Ironically, getting him as a plague boss it the best thing for anyone that struggles in crucible to finally be able to learn him in peace - as opposed to getting one try.
Speaking of the flame, it seems the flinch mechanic from runes were revamped. Hit him with a scream and it didnât stop his attacks, yet it still works for normal moobs.
Just feels like a proper boss now they want people to learn and defeat playing the game straight up which Iâm fine with.
I donât know what your point is but mine is clear and logical, Echo Knight in P3 and P4 is harder than Crucible.
Simple, concise and logical coming from someone who personally doesnât have a problem beating him in either scenario but can objectively assess the fight.
So the story of the Cerim, in the game about the Cerim, is something you consider optional?
All Iâm reading is âNo, a 10-30 minute auto-scroller is necessary to make the fight and the reward meaningfulâ. I argue, if this is the case, all of it is bad design. Even From Software has gone away from the âmeaningful deathâ design, as it did not add to the game, but only took away from it. If you design a fight in such a way, that the repetitive journey to reach it is integral to the feeling of accomplishment, you are actively alienating a lot of people from your game for very little gain. Fair enough that you feel it is important that people struggle to get there, but I still have not seen a single good argument for why this is the case, only that it is your opinion.
Lastly, if you believe the Crucible is something that should be reserved for the âgit gudâ players, or the ones with a lot of time on their hands, why is this the case?
Then youâve likely just skipped over the thread to come write what you wanted to.
This leads me to believe what I just said even more.
The Crucible itself is way too easy right now. On top of that, in every run you can at least 4-5 floors if you choose the echoes to do so.
The Crucible should be a lot harder and a lot more rewarding as the final challenge. The mobs should drop special/high-grade loot.
The game needs an endgame loop that keeps challenging the player, simple.
1 Like
You could always not use echos if you want more of a challenge.
And crucible farming is the primary way to chase ring and find new runes so it is pretty rewarding.
That reminds me good old days of pre-crucible update.
You donât echoes to get through the Crucible at all. The mobs pose no challenge. It only helps you with the EK.
If mobs dropped loot, or you got something in the form of shards which could be traded for loot while keeping some special loot behind EK kill, then the experience for the average player would be a lot more enjoyable.
If you want this game to succeed, you have to appeal to the widest audience, not just the core.
Iâve read all of it. You are arguing against allowing players to engage with the fun content, because you believe the boring content makes the fun content meaningful. I agree that this is a good thing in video games, fundamentally, but it should be balanced appropriately. Expecting players to spend 10-30 minutes of âeasyâ gameplay, to be hit with a boss that is obviously very hard for a lot of players, is not well balanced at all. You arguing that âit has to be this wayâ, is exactly you catering to the âgit gudâ players, weighing their sense of accomplishment to be more important, than to let the average player enjoy the game. So tell me exactly how I am wrong, instead of just slinging accusations.
It is not my job alone to interpret the exact meaning of what you mean. So if you do not want to elaborate, or have a conversation, tell me that instead.
But this statement seems pretty counter intuitive to your arguments on every other thread that the game is too easy, no? If you YouTube videos of the game all you see is people looking for the highest damage possible and ignoring as many mechanics as possible.
So what is the wide audience? A challenge or the veil of challenge when the games mechanics can be ignored.
Quite frankly I donât think crucible has ever been difficult. But it has always been rewarding as a place to hone your skill and try new things.
In addition we know crucible is incomplete and Thomas has teased a boss rush, and a rogue like start with nothing and level up variation as a completely unique experience outside the standard world. I think both would be amazing btw
Worth noting that many of EK skills are veryâŚvery..veryyy similar (in pieces) to those of the enemies you see in the crucible on the way. I felt the realization for me was much more apparent before the fungus moved in and there were more knights as enemies, but I digress.
Thereâs a lot of training or practice for that fight before you ever reach EK. And they can be practiced in open world with the pestilence mechanic as well. And they regen HP so you could in theory just have an EK in open world for you to practice.
Might be worth trying if itâs the time sync before getting to re-challenge that gets you