Echo Knight and the Crucible

Wicked Feedback
1

So far I have 44 hrs in the game, and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. There is heaps of potential and I genuinely can’t wait until we get the rest of the story and full release.

For the last few days I have been bashing my head against the crucible, trying to defeat the Echo Knight. While I could Alt+F4 to get back to back attempts it was fine, I enjoyed trying to learn the fight when there was no time consequence to a failure. I even got the bug once where if I died and re-entered (after clearing the rooms), it took me straight back to the Echo Knight, that felt great. Now that’s been patched out, I get it, it wasn’t intended. Being able to rush the boss isn’t intended. Fair enough, Early Access whatever.

It feels shit, and sure, maybe I’m just bad. Having to spend 10-15 minutes killing trash, to get one attempt that could last anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Maybe I am rushing, and not taking my time to dodge or parry or block. Maybe I’m fixating on killing it so much that I’m not “playing properly”, maybe my build is shit, I don’t know. Having to fight and run through all that stuff, to get one attempt, is genuinely taking the fun out of it for me.

All of the other bosses had a whisper before them, so I didn’t feel extra “pressure” while I was learning the fight, I could actually take my time, make mistakes, learn the animations, when to dodge etc. Against the Echo Knight, I feel like I can’t do that, because if I make a mistake and die, I have to spend another 15 minutes getting back to him.

I don’t even mind the rooms, less rooms would feel better. I haven’t counted how many there are but 3 rooms would feel better than 6, at least then it wouldn’t feel like so much of a chore. I don’t know how many runs I’ve done of this thing in the last couple days, at least 10, probably more. Every attempt, every failure, has felt progressively more frustrating.

Personally, I would much prefer clearing the floors once, to get repeated attempts per session. A checkpoint before the boss. That way it wouldn’t feel so fraught, less pressure and less time consuming, more enjoyable. I doubt this will happen, but I can hope.

TY for reading my rant, flame away. (Get good, etc.)

12 Likes
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true! please give me a whisper before Echo Knight.

By the way, according to the current mode, I can only use the safest way of playing, as the cost of a single failure is too high. This limits the diversity of gameplay

2 Likes
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As someone who has beat the guy eight times, and failed against him many, many more…I feel ya. I don’t mind some rooms, but it’s too many. Spending 4 hours in my day to get a few goes at the actual guy I want to fight is a bit much. I don’t think they should have a checkpoint right before him, but there should be less rooms or some way to make things faster.

As for your run, I highly, highly recommend blink it’s really helpful to avoid the horse stage as often times what gets me is ragdolling with the horse and getting hit 4 times in one move. Don’t use it too much with the second stage though as his aoes will hit you through the blink.

My best runs with him have been heavy stagger ones. Knockout arrow, anything with ice, a really big hammer. Whatever can knock him on his ass. Some CCs will just straight up cancel his move and make him do something else so you can save them for moves you hate if you don’t have high focus gain.

5 Likes
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Yes I agree, even is the boss would be easier is a lot of time spending in the SAME rooms over and over to reach the boss.

Considering right now room order is random and difficulty of the rooms is kind of the same I think this could be reworked on the following way:

Each crucible challenge has 9 rooms + boss room. Each room is more difficult than the previous one and has better drops (so order wouldn’t be random).

Each 3 rooms you have a checkpoint, so you need to comple 1 to 3 to have a checkpoint if you die in number 2 you start over, but if you pass number 3 you can go to the city, sell, repair, etc. and start from room 4 since that moment to the future for that character.

There could be also particular loot on the sections, so in case you want to farm X material you kill the mobs on levels 1-3 or 4-6. This way you have also target farming which is very lacking on this game.

Before the boss also a checkpoint.

I think this way gives more feeling of accomplishments, its less punishment and more fun.

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If they do a checkpoint before boss it needs to go away if you win. Otherwise you’d just farm the best gear over and over on loop.

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Completely agree, not a permanent checkpoint, just a “per run” type of thing.

E.g. Clear rooms and get to boss, if you die and re-enter during that session, you go back to the boss room. If you go back to town to sell, or log out, it resets and you have to repeat the rooms.

Even half the number of rooms, from the current pool, would make it feel more engaging. Instead of doing every room every time in a random order, doing only 3 or 4 of the rooms at random. It would cut down on the time it takes to ‘earn’ an attempt and create more variety.

I think part of the frustration, for me personally, comes from the time factor. I like the boss being difficult, but sometimes I have limited time to play and, right now at least, I really want to beat this guy!

Even the way I’m running it now, not looting, using throws or backstabs to oneshot mobs, it feels too time consuming per run/attempt which undermines the fun.

(Forum formatting messed me up, woops.)

4 Likes
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One of the better ideas regarding the crucible I’ve read. I like the idea of making it longer with increasing difficulty, but check points every couple levels.

Most the suggestions I’ve seen have basically just wanted to make it easier. At that point, if you just want the game to hand you the W, just watch streamers play, lol.

3 Likes
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Guys, but it’s part of game design. You’re following the story, aren’t you? It’s a cerim trial, the best warriors go through it, that’s the whole point, I like it.

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wholeheartedly agrees.
the crucible should remain a cycle. One that reset once it’s finished.

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I think, to simplify my feelings about this, it comes down to the time it takes to reach the boss.

It’s nothing to do with the bosses difficulty, I like that challenge, it’s an awesome boss fight. It’s that the rooms before the boss, once you’ve reached level 30 and have gear that you want, are boring, it feels like padding that you’re forced to interact with to get to the fun bit.

Honestly I think my build is bad. I allocated stats into all attributes because I wanted to try out new weapons. I don’t have high stamina or HP, which definitely feels like a handicap, and my damage is lower than it could be. I’m chugging stamina and poise potions before the fights to try and help, and eating damage food.

I don’t want it to be “easier”, I want it to be more fun, plain and simple :slight_smile: .

For me that could mean less rooms with more randomness. I timed a run through (from stepping on the first platform to getting to the boss room) and it takes about 10 minutes, 5 would feel better. A big part of that is the running between platforms and waiting for load screens, and this is without looting, killing enemies as quickly as possible.
Or
A checkpoint at the boss, that only activates once you’ve cleared the rooms, and only remains active as long as you stay near the crucible whisper (or log out). If it can happen as a bug, why not make it a feature :stuck_out_tongue: .

3 Likes
12

I agree with ya. The time investment is a bit much. There’s been a couple nights where I’ve sunk in 3 hours mostly clearing the rooms when I only really wanted to fight the boss.

On the stat situation you may need to make a new character. I’m not saying it’s impossible but when I tried a run with a level 14 character I ended up making it to him (level 17 by the time I did) and I just didn’t do damage to him. Had to level a few times and max out the weapon to beat him. So I imagine even a level 30 character with spread out stats would feel like that level 14-17 guy did.

1 Like
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Making a new character is the way to go for sure.

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whisper is needed for sure

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There ain’t a chance in hell I’m beating him but with 40 mushroom soups and a dream I started the crucible at level 13 and managed to not die (came close 4x) and get to him. I feel good about that.

EDIT:
Got him halfway which was more than I expected. Ran out of food

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1 Like
16

Just passed the 50-hour mark, mostly as DEX/Faith. For the crucible, I think I would rather see it be redone in one of two ways.

The first would be as suggested already. Either a lot fewer rooms with more randomness, or a whisper before Echo Knight.

The second would be to turn it into a bigger activity with more diversity.

  • 2 rooms
  • First miniboss + checkpoint
  • 2 rooms
  • Second miniboss + checkpoint
  • 1 room
  • Echo Knight

The second option would still be a grind to reach Echo Knight, but with the two checkpoints (which would clear upon finishing the run) and the minibosses, you would hopefully feel more rewarded. Perhaps have the second checkpoint serve as a point to have a “loot chest” to deposit goods at as well (another item that could be upgraded).

4 Likes
17

That’s not a bad idea. The devs did say they wanted to make Crucible feel like Hades, and Hades has mini bosses along the way to main.

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18

Hades also has more rooms just getting up to a mini boss as this does getting to echo knight. It takes less then 7 min to get back to echo knight.

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19

Potentially, a middle ground is check points with increased ember cost to use said checkpoint.

Essentially trading resources for time

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20

I think a big point here is that you are always doing the exact same rooms, with maybe 1-2 enemies in different places. Sure it may only be roughly 10 minutes to get there, but it is a very, very repetitive journey.

Having it shorter makes how repetitive it is feel less bad. The checkpoints would be more beneficial for those trying to learn without them getting bored or annoyed.

1 Like
21

I would rather it not be shorter and instead its worth your time. Have the enemies drop ridiculous amounts of upgrade items that are currently not that easy to get.