If you come home from a job you don’t like and you don’t want to “work” to overcome a challenge, maybe don’t go choosing to fight a completely optional boss that is meant to pose a challenge for the player.
Agree.
Lower the study cost should be commonsense to any difficult combat.
You can find the instance on Monster Hunter series and Soul series.
I would agree if this was a required boss, that would be bad design, but since it’s optional I don’t really see an issue.
To elaborate futher, it’s like saying that picking to play a hardcore run is too punishing since if you die once you have to start over… Yes, that’s part of the challenge and it’s something you don’t have to do, it’s optional.
The problem is if I want to practice the parry timings, doing the first 9 floors is gonna do nothing to contribute.
And because the opportunity cost of failure is so high, most people won’t risk it and just dodge roll.
That’s lame. I want to work on getting to parry the boss without incurring huge losses in potential rewards.
What you said makes sense…in the debate. But it doesn’t apply to the environment the official team is facing.
Optional can be an excuse for bad game experience, but never solve the problem.
I’m afraid that people who really love this game will not easily give up until they finally run out their patience, roaring in the society, delete the game and give a bad review on Steam. I think this is somewhat happening in Simplified Chinese Community.
Games can be difficult, but they shouldn’t frustrate players. It should takes many years of game production experience to understand this. For example, in Miyazaki’s early works, the distance checkpoint and the boss room were far , but why are they adjusted so close in his latest works?
I hope the official will think about this issue carefully.
Dude. The whole game is optional. This is a ridiculous argument. Right now the crucible is the endgame. If you want to experience the whole game, it is not optional.
And the problem is not that it can kill you in seconds if you are unprepared. The problem is that if you fail (not only at the boss but anytime before it, like fkn falling down because one or more of the many problematic mechanics), you have to start all over, and it can waste hours of ppl time. Not everyone has that much time to do one fkn boring thing repeatedly. At least halve the floors, and stop this fkn falling to death nonsense, and then for all I care, halve the drop rates and give the boss even more moves, to make it harder to learn.
Or maybe make its drop rates based on how many mob we killed prior to the boss and let us start from any stage. Or something, just ffs no falling to death, because that sht alone makes me uninstall the game.
You’re being overly pedantic, we both know the context is meaning optional to story progression.
To get to the final boss takes me about 14 minutes, not exactly a time-heavy investment.
I don’t think it’s a good point to compare Elden Ring to this game. If you fail a boss in there, you just run back sure, but if you want additonal loot from a boss in that game you need to start a completely new run. With this boss you can get loot as many times as you want.
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Parry is high risk, high reward, and since the boss gives good, repeatable loot drops I don’t think it should be that easy to just get free practice against it, that would trivialize the challenge of downing it for the first time. I mean if you REALLY want to, after you manage to beat him once he will sometimes appear as a plague invasion boss right? Practise there.
It doesn’t matter if it has anything to do with the story. As I said “If you want to experience the whole game, it is not optional.”
To get to the final boss takes me about 14 minutes, not exactly a time-heavy investment.
Congrats, you are the guy. But not everyone is.
14 minutes maybe with a fine tuned character or with a completely imbalanced build without falling to death, after who knows how many tries. How many hours do you have since the patch?
I have 80 hours in the game (some of that from before the patch), and absolutely no where near a finely tuned or completely imbalanced build.
Parry mechanics is really good in most of the game, most of the bosses included. An the P1 of echo knight is also really fair, but parry in P2 is really useless, he swings his sword in your face but since it launch a projectile you cannot parry it even in melee, doesn’t really make sense if the projectile is launched from the sword. It means you really have to roll even if you use a heavy build.
Most of his attack in both phases are parryable (that includes his dashes in p2). The ones that are not are swings ending with plague shot/splash.
Yes, but the triple swing is the annoying part since I have to play with this awful bug they don’t want to fix with the 0% plague resistance. It make no sense to not be able to parry that triple swing.
Which 3 swings exactly. There is one long animation (it’s just animation, has no damaging hitbox) that ends with plague shot, and there are some left->right right->left swings - these can be parried.
But all the content in the game is optional, if we pursue this logic?
There are people who are trying to engage with the content in the game, but they find the journey to be repetitive and boring, compared to the boss. Allowing players more tries on the boss would bring no negatives, but it would please a lot of players?
I was able to beat him last night. I think if you have a good echo bonuses build and remember that you can FULLY HEAL with two buttons (echo menu plus lb) it’s really not that hard.
I don’t agree with the “lets retry the optional boss as many times as you want” because it would drop the RISK factor a lot, if they did that I would expect the loot to be a lot less, to balance it out, and then whats the point.
Its supposed to be OPTIONAL content, for maxed out builds, no need to casual/dumb down every aspect of the game.
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you can parry 1 of the triple combo swings easily, problem is its random and quite often surprise attack when you are dealing or gapclosing near him!
Very punishing if you miss it, either from his final sword slam or plague arrow!
Just like Souls bosses
Echo Knight is hard on P4 if you’re not using cheese builds.
I can no hit kill him on phase 1 but in phase 2 all bets are off.
P1 and P2 easy, P3 challenging.