UPDATE: Poll Results: Suggestion from the Developers: Switching the Attributes system to a Talent Tree

Die Invidualität eines Charackters ist das wichtigste im Spiel,den nichts ist schlimmer beim zocken wenn es nur max. 3 Meta Builds gibt und einem nur die gleichen Klone zu gesicht kommen.Ja darum Bitte mehr tiefe im Atributtsystem und den Talenten,voralem den passiven Aspekten.Path of Exile macht es richtig vor,man muss ja nicht das Rad neu Erfinden also kann man ruhig was abschauen z.B. bei den items Variationen.
Lg. bin Gamer seit über 30 Jahren :slight_smile:

I really like this idea of connecting Attributes and Talents!

Advantages:

  • Pretty flexible (if enough talents exist for each attribute)
  • Meaningful choices and distinct character building through talents
  • Consistency and identity through attributes connecting certain themes
  • Encourages problem solving and exploration build wise
    → I really like these dexterity talents, which dexterity weapon could i try? I really like this dexterity weapon, which dexterity talents could I try?

Possible expansion:
More niche/extreme talents can be locked behind attribute gates, rather than level gates
→ speccing into specific attributes feels like a progression

Disclaimer
The Value of Attributes and the more niche/extreme (not strictly more powerful!) talents should still be fairly balanced so branching is viable and does not get punished, otherwise we end up with hidden classes again

General Sidenote:
I also would recommend reducing attribute requirements for weapons and focus more on scaling, to allow even more build flexibility (If I like the feel of a weapon, I should be able to use it, by investing some points - I am fine with not doing as much damage)

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Runes can be used instead of Active Talents if there are

  1. Stat restrictions on Rune
  2. Weapon class restrictions on Rune

Gems can be used instead of Passive Talents if there are

  1. Gem crafting. (Gem fragments will drop and we can craft different gems with recipe)

  2. Gem Enchantment instead of weapon enchantment.

  3. No elemental effect gems. (ie. Ice, Fire etc)
    This way only int/faith based characters can have access to runes that can use elements.
    Str/Dex based characters will use oils for temporary elemental effects.

This may sound weird but I’d like something similar to Cyberpunk 2077’s skill tree.

when playing that game you can use any weapon but the playstyle is augmented by your choice of skills/talents in the different themed “trees”.

The problem with nrftw is that you can only use a small portion of the weapons. It feels bad to find something that looks cool and you can’t even try it out to see if you’d like it.

This is so incredibly cumbersome that they should remove it from the game

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maybe something like Last Epoch skill tree then?

I think this would depend the feats and if those feats have levels I would think.

I have always liked the feat system and it can be mixed and matched to create what effectively is multiclassing without classes. You are just a dude that can do this or that.

Also the Ichor can be used for the final upgrade of a feat you have put a few points or levels into.

Just want to point out (sorry if someone already has and I missed it): balancing a game with a talent tree as proposed is an enormous undertaking compared to balancing as-is.

Not a bad thing, but the studio needs to be committed to the thousands of hours required (depending on the level of customizability) otherwise you’ll be swarmed with complaints and find that everyone is playing the exact same 1-2 builds.

Yeah given how many aprouches there are to skill trees i think it comes down to “build defining perks” what do people want to define there build? some skill trees (every level trees) typically will have a multi investment in 1 perk. Think “stat” up every time you put in a point you get hp or dmg boosts. I feel these type of trees are replaced by a stat system, elden ring doesnt have a tree it just has a stat system and can custimize your weapons with aow. This has a very similar system allready in place and will only grow with possibly hundreds more on the way. And build defining perks to me would be like “throw your weapon” “deal fire dmg” unlock this special move" which currently is also in place with the awesome weapon choice. I admit not being able to equip them is very limiting but there is alot of depth here and it sounds like they are fixing this. we get three weapon slots that can all run different “builds”, even with 1 weapon you can have on you big bonker with four attack skills and 4 gems to further customize to your build a sword and a shield that can be focused however you like offensive or def tank “paladin” style or a different weapon entirelly built how you want it. My personal opinion is that enchanting for X skill meta is stopping people from running white gear which is a huge asset to possible building (limited gem choice currently but this will probably grow as well)
The current system is good and very customizable it just needs more things added. I feel a skill tree should not be huge if added because there are currently enough resources to build a certain playstyle and define a build. I can also vouch for how vast the current weapon system is and how truly different each thing feels. With hundreds of base weapons who are all different, a huge chunk of runes to choose from, a selection of gems to also custimze your weapon further and an enchanting table to roll for things and all of your armor can also help define your build further. There is so much potential here. Its still early access so limited choice is the biggest hinder currently. I dont feel a tree is needed if we get more choices. Ill stop ranting but there is allready so much potential it just needs “more”.

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I added a poll.

So you can vote for what you prefer.

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I’d say I’m down for a combo of the two, as long as the skill tree is relatively lean and each skill is unique and has a true gameplay function.

If it works out and is balanced, it could be a best of both worlds scenario where much of the game is still about getting cool loot with cool enchantments and effects, but certain “affixes” can exist regardless of gear through the use of the skill tree., so we end up with a system comprised of:

  1. Attributes designating some basic stats and efficiency with specific gear

  2. Gear with interesting possibilities in enchantments or affixed + times

  3. Skill tree that helps further specialize in types of play

  4. Ideal ichor system (like @RomoloHero’s idea) that provides especially powerful and unique class defining traits.

Increases in pack size etc should def be made into general upgrades you can purchase at shops, perhaps wrapped into the renovation system in which higher level shops can provide more tiers of inventory space upgrades

3 Likes

a proficiency system and a few mastery points might be helpful

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I’ll just shamelessly link my Ichor System, for those who are curious, since @WolfieZee mentioned it:

Might make some additions to it on the weekend.

Also, remember to vote on the poll, would be great if we get at least 30 total votes :+1:

From my perspective attributes keep the game play simple. Some perk system like in Fallout 1/2/tactics would be fine, if it is not too complicated. Problem with talent tree is that what you find in Diablo 2 is not adding much to the game while something like PoE tree adds too much.

Learning to fight with specific weapon (movement set) was the best part of the game for me. Fact that I am challenged by my skill level rather than by my ability to find some broken meta build was great experience. Pick weapon, chose your gear and go. Something which is missing from games like PoE.

Another issue you get with talent trees are balancing issues. More you add to the game more difficult it becomes to balance like in PoE.

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This got me thinking of God of War where the talents gives you a boost if you hit a serten stat number

Exp in Wicked would be:

Talent: Basic attacks have more focus gain

  • Addition: With 50 points in focus attack speed is increased

Sure it might be a boring example, but alot could be done with that.

Like:

«Charge attack charges faster».

  • Addition: With 75 strength your charge attack now explodes on impact for 50% weapon damage.

Another “i like this game to be more Diablo like” thread, go play Path of Exile instead. The murder hobo munchkins are coming here in droves.

I think you might have commented on the wrong topic.

This topic is about us giving feedback to potentially swapping the attribute system with a talent tree, as was suggested by the CEO. You can see for yourself in the OP. It is just us as community giving feedback to their idea.

Tbh, re reading your post made me realize that they should probably not even introduce skill trees with points for leveling up, but simply change the ichor system to create a “skill tree”

Yeah, the current unlocks that ichor give feel more like they should be unlocked automatically at certain story/level milestones. Let me use my ichor to interact with my build. It already reminds me of Witcher, mutagens? Corruption in the blood?