UPDATE: Poll Results: Suggestion from the Developers: Switching the Attributes system to a Talent Tree

Wicked Feedback
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21

I agree ichor needs a rework currently. I also like the takent tree idea. My 2 cents.
Have the skill tree locked behind “story boss ichor” meaning you can never max this out and if the tree is large enough would have to complete a “story” playthrough for a new character not just spam crucible and transfer to a chest…
Makes story progress effect your tree and path as you progress and get stronger true to the rpg feel.
I dont beleive the current stat system needs a massive overhaul and is very souls like currently if someone wants to farm and level let em but they only get stats (i love level cap keeps it this is my X character) and enforces story playthrough not just endgame spamming.

This could also add where you simply trade ichor to rookery for “bag” upgrades and use “true ichor” to upgrade your character on the level that the animation provides lol.

2 Likes
22

I think it could be very interesting especially if it worked in conjunction with current stat system. I think they could add in a lot of nodes to fix some issues.

They could add in nodes to improve different armors. Give new functionality and balance them.

Like tying rune type builds to cloth. I’m sure they could think of a lot for armors.

Also I really think they should make basic attack builds a thing and or charged attacks. Like there could be a node that causes charged attacks to use stamina the longer you hold it and do more damage based on what you use.

Or have nodes that say more points you have in faith the more effective healing runes will be

It could be interesting I really am a big fan of skill trees in video games borderlands has some really cool skill trees imo.

But I do also at the same time think this game could get away with not having one if they tied runes to the required stat on gear. And changed some of the affixes on gear.

23

yes, instead of choosing class at the beginning of the game like typical souls like games we work toward the class we want to be by slowly specialize in talent tree.

1 Like
24

I love the idea of a talent tree with meaningful choices to make.

I don’t love the idea of removing attributes entirely.

Choosing to invest heavily in certain stats seems like a good way to define a build, and I don’t see how taking that away makes the game better.
I suppose it would depend on the talents in the tree- maybe you could duplicate the effects of the existing stats with talents in the tree, but at that point, why are you removing the stats just to put the same thing back in?- but my initial feeling is these two things work better together than stripping out character attributes entirely.

3 Likes
25

I’d prefer: Max number of ichor talents you can pick is your character’s level. Players could still farm ichor to get ahead, as a sort of soft substitute for a difficulty slider, but at max level everyone is equally strong. And of course there should be far more talents available than the max level so that you really have to choose what fits your build.

3 Likes
26

If it was level based i think it would need to be increments of 5 or another number. Because early access is 30 levels and thirty feats would be bonkers, i even feel 6 feats is still enough to classify a solid built but well have to see just how big this possible tree is theres to many variables.

1 Like
27

Hi wicked team!

My feedback and suggestions on the subject come after full exploration and completion of the currently available content of the game.

I do like the idea of choices we make as the player having some weight behind our character in the game.

My suggestion & idea - Why not add a weapons specialization talant tree, where the player has a limited number of points to spend and picks different weapons from the tree. For example to be able to equip two handed swords or all two handed weapons you put a point in and once you do that slot tells you what stats will those weapons benefit from for example strenght, this way the players then know exactly what stats to level up for the weapons they want to use.

This tree can also open up many class options, like for example being able to duel wield one handed weapons. How this will work is, it will allow a one handed sword or other one handed weapons to be equipped in the shield/torch slot. When this happens each one handed weapon loses it’s 3rd & 4th rune slot like when you enchant them. This way with the 2 one handed weapons you still get 4 runes in total…The team can create generic animations for the way the basic attacks would go for each option under that dual wield category. For example with x2 one handed axes the player does 3 attack with slower hits the. Like right axe hit, left axe hit and the 3rd hit is with both and can be a charged attack.

For swords it can be 4 attacks that are much faster, these are all just examples ofc. and so on, I’m sure the team has some amazingly talanted people who can create really cool designs for all the options.

Each weapon class would have it’s own talant point in the specialization tree and our choices as player would matter towards our builds and play style as you won’t be able to pick them all…

However at the same time it would create some really interesting builds and classes. Another exmaple of how the stats would come in to play. So for example if I pick any of these weapons all of them will scale with dexterity for extra dmg. Bow, daggers, spear, but all the two handed weapons would be strenght, while the rest of the one handed weapons can be a mix of stats. For example, One handed axes talant will show you that they scale with both strenght and dexterity. One handed maces can be strenght and faith and so on etc.

Lets say for the sake of the example I am limited to only choose 5 weapons from the talant tree at which point you get to the last section of the talant tree and you can only spend 1 more point towards the last option from 5 available which could be something like a special bonus or effect the character gets. For example one could be (player takes longer to stagger) or (player builds focus faster with basic attacks) again these are just examples.

The team at wicked can come up with the rest of it.

Ofc if this post gets upvoted and a lot of interest I can come back and come up with a full written idea for it all :slight_smile:

Otherwise the game seems great and looking forward to more updates and areas to explore. However I do think the current stats requirements for certain weapons need a rebalance or adjustment. Hence why I created this which I think would solve a lot of the stats to weapon issues at the moment and people will have more driven choices. Instead of being stuck at only using a certain weapon because of the stats they choose…

Best wishes for the devs!

BTW I made a post about this and later found this tread so apologies for the repost, but maybe it’s better suited here?

28

Totally onboard with a talent tree! Just nerf experience loss on damage taken debuff… that one is so entirely angering just for the sake of it haha.

29

Lets go down the rabbit hole.

Do you know the passive tree from path of exile. This is a monstrousic abomination of a node network. However, what made that thing fantastic is that you were able to severely modify basic game mechanics with unique skill nodes. This allowed for uncounted different playstyles.

I think the ichor stuff could be something like that. Occasions where the character commits into one direction of build. But if played accordingly, it is boosting the specific playstyle of this character. Sometimes with a tradeoff.
I am thinking of some examples here:

  • focus acts as shield, no focus gain for parrying and blocking
  • immune to range attacks, but blocking is not possible
  • cannot stagger but cannot use runes
  • endurance regeneration while blocking, but cannot parry
  • parrying time window gets larger with less weight, but 50% less armor

Or for a less commited playstyle:

  • 50% more life
  • natural life or focus regeneration
2 Likes
30

I’m not sure what a “Skill Tree” could look like in Wicked at the moment to be honest, so it’s very difficult to comment on whether it would be an improvement.

My first thought is that moving away from the current system entirely would be a mistake.

3 Likes
31

more depth makes autistic widdle brain happy so i approve any and all depth additions

1 Like
32

I think linking runes to stat is better than introducing a talent tree.

And those passives in the usual talent trees can be introduced using gems

These gems for passive and runes for active is already giving this game a unique vibe.

Just need to link them to stats so that each build has a unique feel to it and a clear progression

This is my opinion.

3 Likes
33

I think attributes are okay. They work just fine in other ARPGs anyways. I just wish there was more of a distinction between a faith weapon, or a strength weapon, or a dexterity weapon, or an intelligence weapon. There’s a little bit of a difference, but not enough. I could take the time to level an int character and grab the 2-handed sword that requires 42 int, but would it be any different from my str character that uses 2-handed swords? I’d have the same access to essentially all the same runes. The move set might be slightly different, but I’m not sure that’s enough to get me to level another character.

Same thing with armor classes. I’d guess most people aren’t using cloth at all, and only leather when they have to.

I also wish weapons had lower attribute requirements, but I kind of see what they were after with weapons dropping at higher powers in higher tiers. I’m not entirely convinced it worked, since I’ve been unable to even try out most of the weapons in early access so far, which doesn’t feel great. I might feel differently about leveling an int 2-handed sword character if I could toss it on, swing it around, and see that I really like the attack patterns.

A talent tree separately could still be interesting, though.

3 Likes
34

Haven’t read what other said yet, but.

My recommendation: Make the talent tree as flexible as possible, don’t lock it behind classes (like PoE does, for example).

So, if i want to play Spear for example, i can be super tanky, super squishy, build into crit or attack speed (or balance out both), do a magic spear build, maybe throw them? Diablo and WoW are two example of how NOT to do a talent tree.

It doesn’t have to be super big and scary like the PoE tree, not even close, but not too small either…

1 Like
35

Here’s my idea: instead of a talent tree, implement a talent pool (the difference between the two is that any bonus in the pool can be picked, whereas in a tree, you can only select them in a certain order).

Then, tie each bonus in the talent pool to one of the 4 offensive attributes, and bonuses are themed for each attribute (which gives each attribute a clear identity). For each 5 points in an attribute, you can pick a bonus from the appropriate pool.

For example, the pool of dexterity bonuses might include:

  • increased damage with bows
  • increased damage with dual-wield knives
  • +5% chance to critically hit
  • +10% attack speed
  • … and so on

This way, each stat has a clear theme, but players can still mix and match to craft their own builds. For example, even if your weapon doesn’t scale with dex, it might be worth it to allocate 5 points into dex just to get that crit damage bonus.

Currently there’s no reason to ever consider putting points into the majority of the scaling attributes, but with a cleverly designed skill pool, players will be encouraged to delve into some of the other attributes to grab bonuses that might be good for their builds.

36

Hi devs,

I am player that already spent 120 hours in your game and here is my insight.

I fear that introducing talet tree would would be in conflict with rune system (that system is in my opinion realy good).

If you would like to add a talent tree I think it should be tree full of passives that you could use to boost your character to specific direction that you would like to play. This way there would be more freedom for players.

Another way doing it would be for example making stats to give you some kind of bonus after reaching specific amount of points in that atribute.

As someone already mentioned - inspiration in POE could work too.

I think none of us want to make this game another Diablo 4… right? :smiley:

2 Likes
37

I do think 1 talent every 5 levels, feels right. However, I’d personally prefer being able to invest into a talent at each level. They could make it so that you can invest multiple times in the same talent getting a higher return with each point invested. Each talent could have 5 levels, and when you hit level 5 on the talent, you get some small bonus or something. It does making leveling less meaningful in a way though.

I’d like it if we end up with 12 feats. I play a lot of the pathfinder games and there you end up with a similar amount or more. What tends to happen in those games is that you pick the best prerequisites for your intended build first and then start to further specify your feats. I like having more feats, since it feels like your character is getting something cool and new a lot more frequently. It also adds more depth since you have more ways to build your character.

I would envision it something like this*:

  • Act 1, level 1-15, talents 1-3, basic talents

  • Act 2, level 16-30, talents 4-6, core talents

  • Act 3, level 31-45, talents 7-9, specialized talents

  • Act 4, level 46-60, talents 10-12, further specialized talents

*Assuming 4 acts and even leveling

Edit: Ichor could be used for special talents maybe? The problem is, is that they are essentially limitless. If they are limited I can see more use for them.

2 Likes
38

Screenshot_10
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I have no idea where this tree is from, but… Something like this would be ideal for No Rest for the WIcked.
It’s basically a mini Path of Exile tree. No class specifitic talents. Focus should be on variety. Diablo 4 is a good example of how NOT to do talent trees. Locking people into 1-2 builds per weapon/class would be the worst move to make.

6 Likes
39

The benefit of this is also that it keeps the attributes relevant. Assuming, the 4 attributes are each a branch. They could then add some utility branches that are not locked by any prerequisites but level. So players of various attributes have access to some similar talents. Maybe some Ichor exclusive branch even.

1 Like
40

hi , This picture looks complicated, so thank you very much about where you quote it.