Any plans to have some sort of skill tree like POE/Last Epoch, etc.?

I know you can use your attribute points when you level up, but I didn’t see a skill tree, where you can invest in specific weapon attributes for example. OR is the town going to act as your skill tree in a sense, as you can tune specific buildings/equipment to a specific weapon/ability?

Any info would be greatly appreciated! April 18th can’t come any sooner! :smiley:


I’d like to know as well.

I have no idea! I kinda doubt a skill tree for some reason, though. I feel like we will have weapons and abilities/runes of some kind that scale with our attributes… but not necessarily like a skill tree.

It’s been mentioned a few times that white weapons are the most customizable, so I imagine there are slottable abilities or runes maybe that we can acquire. Maybe they just meant that you can add more stats or custom effects to them, though, and it has nothing to do with the abilities that we’ll have.

I’m so excited to find out, either way :sweat_smile:

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I’d say listen to our interview with Rhykker, where we went into more detail about this stuff and the reason why we don’t use a traditional ARPG class skill tree - we generally feel like those are too limited and usually result in less choices for the player.


Dunno how I feel about this tbh. While it could be argued trees are limited but souls style on its own does a bare minimum at providing depth and identity.

What makes Strength player A different from Strength player B for example? They both are just effective at wielding the same weaponry regarding that stat, one is just likely gonna hit harder than the other depending on who has a bigger investment on the stat. Yeah they have 4 skills but that comes from the weapon itself and not the character.

In a way, Souls style progression encourages jack of all trade playstyle while stats are there just for tuning purposes.


Ok, yeah I listed to the interview, which was great! I’ll listen more closely this next time around. I think after watching many demos, I’ll need to also rewatch the launch to see if there are other things I missed. :smiley:

Appreciate the response and loving what I’ve seen of the game so far!

Yeah skill trees which always end up with few viable builds unless you play easy H&S game like D4 where most are viable cause, yeah game is easy.

Just stop wanting this game to be hack & slash meat grinder it is not and cause of that it is higly welcome among to sit among other ARPG’s.

I don’t want anything, it was a question. :slight_smile: There are many games that aren’t even a 'Hack and Slash" that have skill trees.

(For those that are curious like me, I think Thomas is referring to this video – – skill tree & player class discussion starts at 6:10 and ends around 12:30).

Thomas, first-off, kudos to you & your team for the dream qualities of this game’s design & execution. I’m extremely excited for April 18th!

From the interview, it sounds like a Skill Tree / Class system was rejected for (2) main reasons:

  • Increasing player autonomy (i.e., wanting to dial-down how much the designers dictate the boundaries of a given playstyle)
  • Reducing homogenous gameplay experiences (i.e., if I go up the Rogue skill tree, my gameplay could look very similar to another player’s Rogue since we’re climbing the same tree)

I feel like the current implementation–a Soulslike Attribute System in which leveling-up allows players to make small, incremental increases to some numbers–doesn’t quite solve the (2) mentioned problems and instead adds a few more to the pile.

If player autonomy is a concern, then there are few points of tension:

  • Attribute requirements dictate which weapons I can equip, so my access to certain playstyles is still being prescribed by which numbers I choose to incrementally raise by 1.
  • As a player, it feels less autonomous to be a classless entity when the weapon types from loot are random, weapon stats are random, and I can’t predict / plan for what attribute spread I’ll need to have in order to try later weapons. Maybe there’s a really fun Scythe later in the game that’s DEX/INT but I’ve already committed to a STR/FTH spread; or, let’s say I want to test out the Great Sword I get from defeating Warrick (just to see if I even like the moveset / playstyle), but I can’t until I’ve spent 12 points in STR (and not spent those points elsewhere). Both of these scenarios result in less player freedom. This can, at best, be relieved by a low-cost respec system, but then that’s drawing attention to the overall tedium of the system.

For the issue of homogenous gameplay experiences, the root problem seems to be not the tree but the placement of, and balance between, its branches.

  • Looking at Ori 1, the (3) Ability Trees are linear and branchless. As I go up the Utility Tree, I’m never prompted with a choice to commit to Branch A at the cost of Branch B/C/D, so of course my gameplay experience is going to look similar to other players; the system did not supply stakes or alternatives.
  • The current system seems more likely to resolve into homogenous gameplay experiences since the only thing that separates Dexterity Player A and Dexterity Player B is the difference in their attributes (and the gear that those attributes permit them to equip).

Outside of those (2) issues, I think it’s worth mentioning the difference in the sense of progression & satisfaction between a Skill Tree system and an incremental, numbers-go-up system. With a well-grown skill tree, it feels exciting to earn that next level and have the opportunity to unlock a new skill, to commit to a choice with active gameplay consequences that reinforce the fantasy of playing as an X (e.g., do I choose the lower cost & shorter distance Blink, or the longer distance Blink that empowers the next ranged attack?). I can’t say the same for increasing a few numbers by 1.

All that said though, I’m not a game designer, and I imagine the implementation of a Skill Tree system (especially at this stage of development) would be exceedingly resource-heavy given the design complexity, UX demands, and all the tuning required across multiple other systems. However, if it ever becomes a possibility down the road, Skill Trees would be another one of those dream qualities that would massively improve the sense of player expression and progression.


Highly agree with this.

It’s difficult to resonate or take ownership of a build if it’s just a pile of numbers and the gear that those numbers permit you to equip.

I think this also connects to the common idea that Soulslike games live & die by the quality of their enemy variety. If the player’s options aren’t particularly expressive in terms of gameplay, then the enemies have to pick up all of that slack.

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Folks, you’ll see what we have in store for you. Just cause STR builds in Souls games aren’t too different from one another doesn’t mean it’s the same in Wicked. You’ll build your own STR build based on which gear you choose, which runes you pick, which enchantments you go with, which gems you use on top… there’s plenty of options.

I’ve made the mistakes with skill trees before and I have the scar tissue to prove it. Our system is very similar to what we did with Wisps where we moved from our BF Ability Tree to our Spirit Shard System, which I think was just an objectively better design because it allowed for more player expression.

And yeah, Wicked is not just about Numbers go up, we want more depth than that. In most of the Diablo-clones out there, including PoE, the depth in combat mostly comes from doing the math. It’s funny that they’re called ‘Action’ RPGs, because they’re not exactly action-focused in my book. Action to me means actually having to react to enemies and having full control over my character instead of just sitting down with a calculator and coming up with a build guide that does 1.3% more DPS than this other build guide.

And I’m sorry if some people might feel like I’m being too critical here - I love ARPGs. I just think we need to take the next step forward, even if some choices need to be made that might seem uncomfortable / new at first.


Agree and I’m all for change! Looking forward to playing!! :smiley:

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I get what you guys are saying but please consider a classless skill tree. big or small the idea of a unique combination of curated skills that loosely synergize with branching paths and decisions.

Yall have made such a unique arpg experience but it would be cool if yall took your creative philosophies and put it into a skill tree akin system, and make a unique take on skill trees. plz consider. make your own style of skill tree.

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Nothing we do is without class… :joy: :rofl:


Big like on that. That is the main reason I’m so hype for this game. It seems your skill as a player is actually important, and not just to be able to follow a build guide or some building tool.


i mean a role less based tree

like a free flow tree

a do whatever you want skill tree but ok

… i hope you didnt misunderstood what i meant…lol

This has been true for 20+ years. Let’s all remember that the birth of “Action” RPG came from taking a turn based RPG and just making the turns happen every frame. :sweat_smile: Everything, everything everything else under the hood at that point was just numbers no different than pen and paper RPGs. We have come SO far from that moment without any real foundational innovation to the A in ARPG. Developers since have always promised innovation but in essence they’ve only innovated on the numbers, but not the action.

So I’m going to trust their judgement here and have faith that they have a vision of what they want to execute and it may not immediately feel intuitive. I think that’s ok. I’m really bored of ARPGs that I can intuit quickly these days imo.


I like the direction that they are taking using attributes, gear and enhancements. It would be pretty cool for those items to auto populate and "tree chart " of some sort so we can post our different creations. Complete opposite of any current rpg on the market. We make the skill tree based on choices.

I do have a question is it possible for these enhancements or attribute points to give hard skill bumps, like +2 to sword damage or add fire to my sword?

I have not played game yet but do like the unique approach they are aiming for.

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about skill tree… for me it doesn’t make much difference, having it or not, but one way it could be added, would be with a book where you get its pages from a boss or randomly in some area in the game , these pages would add some passives to your character.

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In the Wicked Inside video boss fight you do see some skill or attribute allow the game character to ignite his sword. So looks like you’re in luck :smile: