For clarification
Weapon Types = Greatswords, Axes, Bows, Staves, etc.
Poll
Weapon Types should have their own Talent Tree.
- Strongly Agree
- Agree
- Neutral
- Disagree
- Strongly Disagree
0
voters
Discussion
i disagree. weapons already got enchantments, upgrades and the crucible upgrade. i would rather see character and built specific things. and not only weapon builds.
things like a rogue tree, where u can skill light armor to become viable, make sneaking easier, backstabs more powerful etc.
or smith, where u can craft for less resources or your crafted items are automatically of blue or purple type.
or alchemist, where potions become more powerful and u unlock new recipes and passives like âtake less dmg for x seconds after taking a potionâ etc.
or multiplayer roles like healer, tank etc, where for example u can skill that healing yourself, also heals allies for x %.
there is so much potential in a skill tree, so iâd rather have roleplay focused skills. having a tree for each weapon AND having cool roleplay buffs will result in 20-ish trees that just overwhelm the player, and are super unsatisfying because u can never even really specialize, but rather put a skill here and a skill there.
1 Like
I went with strongly agree, here is why.
Currently weapons such as greatswords, greataxes, mauls, polearms etc. all play and feel the same. There is nothing that sets these weapon types apart from each other. A greatsword build doesnât differ from a greataxe build. I donât like that from a thematic sense there have to be differences in what weapons do.
I wouldnât want the talent tree to completely focus on weapon talents etc. But, there should be the option and that you mix and match various trees to make your builds.
Greataxes can focus on bleeding effects and executions whereas mauls focus on stagger and armor pen or something. It creates replayability for the player and a starting point for their potential build.
i feel those weapon âskillsâ you describe should be in the weapons not the skill tree. I would not want to read and skill through 20 trees, because 10 of them are weapon exclusive trees.
weapons should have some sort of intrinsic âfeelâ.
ok, maybe add 1 tree where u can skill character roleplay treats related to strength that also affect great weapons, like âyou are so strong u can swing heavy weapons more easilyâ or whatever. But please donât add 10 weapon trees. thats just too much. it should be done with 3-5 trees or so. thats it.
Iâm hoping for more depth than that, I want the talents to be more build defining than enchanting.
That is not what I am saying at all.
What I am saying is to give an example:
Greataxe: X = 40%, Y = 15%
Greatsword: X = 15%, Y = 40%
Now, I am fine if the weapons have innate stats and we have the talent tree allowing to spec into X or Y. Or if we have Greataxe 1 focusses on X whereas greataxe 2 focusses on Y. But, even then I would prefer multiple build routes for weapon types.
I disagree with it being a weak narrative, so therefore I do find it justified.
Now I can see the balancing issues sure, but I would consider the potential gains from replayability and depth to outway those.
To me one of the issues is that the weapons only offer their moveset and the rune they come slotted with, their stats are randomized and given the scarcity of some weapons it can become irrelevant - when it shouldnt be.
This I can get behind, but then I would want more stats on weapons to synergize with such potential builds.
Ideally, Iâd like both to be fair.
If something like that ends up happening I think I will be fairly let down. I really want a talent tree with a lot of depth and options. Not something like POE but if it was something like Stoneshard with various categories I can get behind it.
The difference comes from the weapons themselves, as those have noticably different move sets, attack speed, reach and poise damage. No hammer has a long range stab attack build into its moves; hammers seem to grant bonus poise defence during charge attacks.
Runes also play big role.
I am literally arguing for build decisions, how do you not see this 
I am not saying everything can be on a single build. What I am saying is that different weapon types can have different stats which can lead to different builds. And, that within those weapon types there can be different weapons that have different stats which lead to even more different build options.
It is not about me accepting that logic or not, it is about me not finding that logic applicable given the situation. It has nothing to do with ââa rule of thumbââ or anything. The difference in opinion stems from how we view and want the Talent Tree to be. We are both looking at something from a different perspective, therefore we have a difference in opinions.
The purpose to me is so that weapons have an identity and that playerâs can easily recognize what build would be best suited for a certain weapon. If you allow every weapon to be valid for a build, what is the point in having builds in the first place.
I think the difference in opinion stems from how big of a role we want the Talent Tree to play. This is an assumption so correct me if I am wrong. I want a large and in depth Talent Tree which largely dictates our build. I donât want it to be additive to our build.
If I can make every build work with every weapon than what is the purpose of a build. It will feel so hollow, instead you can reward players when there is more differentiation. If a player realizes that a certain weapon has better synergies for a certain build, that feels rewarding. But, it also lets players explore more weapons to see what would be the ideal fit for their build.
If you can make any build work on any weapon nothing is special about it. You are not presenting players with the incentive to look for weapons for their build. They can just use whatever they find, where is the fun in that? Builds donât have to be isolated to certain weapons or weapon types, but they can lean in the direction of certain builds. You can even have specific weapons that lean into builds not commonly associated with the weapon.
Even right now the difference between playing with a sword, axe or mace is almost non-existant outside of the moveset. And even then, various one-handed weapons share the same moveset.
It is not the choice but the stats that donât matter when a weapon has low availability. Since you are just happy with having 1 after, letâs say a dozen hours of farming. For weapons bought from the vendor it matters more since they are more easily available. And, when I say it shouldnât be, I mean that those stats should be relevant. Having 6 or 10 focus gain on a weapon can be huge given the length of the attack animation. On another note, I do think it would be better if each weapon has the same base stats. Would make it easier to balance things as well.
I think this is where most of the disagreement between us stems from. I want the talent tree to be the big center and weapons, armor, enchants etc. to be additive to this.
But, the road travelled is different. For me at least, it is a lot more fun trying to find synergetic pieces. It makes me feel like I am working on and towards something. Then finally all the pieces come together giving that satisfaction.
I have been playing some Stoneshard and Battle Brothers lately, and finding weapons, armors etc to complete your build is a lot of fun. It also gives you something to look forward to. I understand that the Talent Tree can also do this. But, then it feels more isolated.
I donât necessarily like bleed effects, Iâm just using the same example for consistency. The word gatekeeping is a overbearing for what unique talents for weapons would really do. What you would want is remove the uniqueness of those cool effects and make them available to everything. That makes the talent tree super shallow as the decisions wouldnât matter as much as with weapon talent trees.
Weapon talent trees would make weapons feel more unique and special. It doesnât offer the same customization as a generic one sure, but the customization is a lot better since it is tailored for the weapon/style. Following your logic I should be able to make a bleed build with a hammer. That wouldnât make sense thematically and can be immersion breaking. Now, if a Spiked Mace would be valid for a mace build it would make more sense.
If the Talent Tree is just another modifier it will feel like such a smoke screen. Your build decisions with your talents are then disconnected from your weapon choice. As anything is valid and nothing matters.
Thatâs the thing for me tho, your system seems more linear to me
I do think we both see a lot of flaws in each other perspectives and I also donât think we can see eye to eye as we are going in circles a bit here.
One thing tho!
It doesnât actually, or the UI isnât being updated/bugged:
I have seen malice get between 6-10. Now imagine you have 100% focus gain, the difference is 12-20 per auto attack. The latter is much easier to get a focus neutral build with. Now imagine this with items that can only be found, kinda 
ed up.
100% agreed, we need more customization in general. Way too much RNG, what you said about live service games etc., is spot on. I donât mind farming for gear in WoW or Genshin because that is the end goal etc. Even then it becomes mind numbing⌠But for Wicked? Nah off. I want to craft my items and have more control over it, the game already has survival game elements. They should lean more into those.
It loses itâs uniqueness when you can apply a bleed build to any weapon, even hammers. Weapon types and specific weapons should be skewed in various directions to enable various builds. When anything becomes possible it loses an important sense of build crafting and accomplishment. It creates an illusion of choice.
If the Major Heart Surgery ends up being â bigger numbers and % increases etc. then yeah 100%. We have cool and unique effects in the crucible, usefulness is debatable, but I hope they extend that to the talent tree.
Not semantics but facts, if you can use any weapon with any build and get a similar result, what you then have is an illusion of choice. Sure attack patterns matter, but that then means people will gravitate towards the same weapon with every build.
Those people for sure, but it is also just sequential thinking. If there are certain weapons that stand head and shoulder above the rest due to their moveset. And, if the skill tree makes it so each and every weapon is viable for a specific build. Then guaranteed a lot of people will gravitate to the same weapons for different builds.
Rather than that, provide an incentive to people to try and play with other weapons. Weapon specific trees can allow for that, even moreso if weapons have more basic stats that are signifiers for potential builds.
You know the answer to this yourself so why ask? I donât see why you want to lump me in with those people.
I am 100% starting with my armor as a base for my build, gotta look the part.
Now weapon trees would also mean you get more diverse builds. So when the clowns come in and ask ââwHaT iS oP?ââ. People donât just reply with use weapon X and any build. But, ask what build? Or they give the strongest build weapon combo.
Yet, what I am advocating for has a more in depth design than what you want. Therefore, your comment here is more applicable to your own suggestion than mine. With weapon trees there are more elements required to create something of your own design. If there are more linear playstyles, your design matters less. As you pick the playstyle and slap a weapon on it and the design is done. It is so shallow.
Sure, but your choices as a player matter less. Regardless of game people generally like the idea of choices and decisions mattering more. And, I think that idea should extent to your build decisions with regards to weapons and armor.
Sure they can cause bleeding as a by product of the blunt force trauma it is more commonly associated with. This mostly translates to video games in the form of stagger, daze, stuns etc. Whereas bleeding is more associated with skin puncturing. Which a blunt weapon is less likely to cause compared to a sharp weapon.
For instance, I can see a polehammer or a spiked mace inflicting bleed. If those are weapons in Wicked it would make sense for them to be able to have a bleed build. Wooden club, less so.
I think it is better if for instance, a spiked mace is better with a bleed build than a stagger build and vice versa for a wooden club. Making them equally viable for each build is something I see as a bad thing. Weapons should inherently synergize more with a build outside of their moveset.
i think we do no have to reinvent the wheel. having a (1) weapon tree with weapon specific skills is common practice. but i do not want 10 weapon trees and 10 character, roleplay and world focused trees.
having a whole tree for each weapon type is just overkill. you should not skill 15 skills to make an axe feel like an axe. it should feel like that from the start and maybe get 1 or 2 bonus talents from the weapon tree.
skills should in my opinion never just be about weapons and attacks, but more about your character. its a RPG after all. so each skillpoint spent should feel like your character is more individual now, but not chained to a weapon.
you character can now sneak better, smith weapons, talk to animals or influence the outcome of enchantments etc. there are so many cool possibilities. please do not waste those on 15 âaxeâ skills, 12 âswordâ skills and 10 âdaggerâ skills.
1 Like
When I used that argument in Rune Augments thread, you put me on your ban list.
No.
You are on my block list since you dmâd me just to insult me.
As for your argument, it didnât hold value to me as it was based on incorrect assumptions.
Well, it wouldnât be reinviting the wheel as individual weapon trees for weapon types already exist in RPGâs. What it is really about is which wheel fits Wicked.
That is where we have disagreement.
Iâm also not envisioning it with 15 different skills in each weapon type tree, that would indeed be overkill. The content right now is intended for max lvl 20 and we can lvl to 30. Letâs assume max lvl is a 100. At that point we could be able to pick a 100 talents. That is insane. I am fairly convinced that we will get skill nodes that are (1/X). So we can invest multiple times into the same skill. Something like Titan Quest maybe? I would actually really like something like that but then with smaller skill trees so there is more diversity and no limit on the amount of trees we can pick out of.
When one skill tree influences most weapon classes:
True.
When one augment influences most runes (I only replaced âweaponsâ with ârunesâ):
False.
Logic.
Thanks for further proving you still hold the same incorrect assumptions, as over 12 days ago when you felt the need to insult me over this in dmâs, by demonstrating that you still donât understand the difference between both suggestions 
@RomoloHero what might this insult be? You are free to quote me.
Sounds like this is going into a direction that does not help the topic.
Back to topic
Thomas did mention in his interview with Ginger Prime that he wants each element to play and feel different. I think it would be pretty cool if that extended to the weapon types and such.
This might also be better for a new topic but, how would you guys envision or want the different elements to eventually play? I do hope we get more cool and unique effects like summoning flame waves on attacks or shooting fireballs on focus spent.