UPDATE: Poll Results: Suggestion from the Developers: Switching the Attributes system to a Talent Tree

Wicked Feedback
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62

I would like to see a Weapon Proficiency Leveling system that grows the more you utilize each weapon type. And each weapon type can have an Ability Tree of their own you can invest into, which will match with the weapon type.

Each level would allow you to increase a stat for that weapon class type, and award you Ability points to select Ability from that Weapon Type Ability Tree. For example, as you level OH Swords you can increase Weapon Damage or Stamina Consumption. When increasing Daggers proficiency, you can choose to increase Crit % or Crit DMG. With staves you can choose Elem DMG or Focus Regeneration. This would allow each weapon type to have a more personalized feel.

Some examples of Unique Weapon Abilities could include
•Invisibility during sneak for Daggers
•Focus Regen for 5 seconds after crit for Staves
•increased radius for AoE splash damage on Great Weapons
•Increased parry timing for Shields

At level 5 and every 5 levels after, you will reach bottlenecks which would require a Master trainer of that weapon type to help you unlock it with Ichor and a challenge. Once you break through the bottleneck, you would be allowed to use the next tier of weapons of that type.

Weapon Tiers

Lvl 1-5 Entry level weapons which are fully customizable as they are currently

Lvl 6-10 Rare - Has 1 unique ability of the weapon type

Lvl 11-15 Epic - Has 2 unique abilities of the weapon type

Lvl 16-19 Legendary - Has 3 unique abilities of the weapon type

Lvl 20(Max?) God/Demon - Has 3 abilities of ANY weapon type

This could be the same abilities as in the ability trees, which would allow you to allocate points in other abilities. Or if that ability is already unlocked on that weapons type ability tree, it would enhance it.

And lastly, remove Attribute requirements for weapons and just give each weapon type a scaling Attribute. That way even if you max out all weapon types, Attributes would ultimately define the build.

I personally do not like skill trees that force you to invest in abilities you don’t want to arrive at the one you do. By giving the weapon types the abilities, you can mix and match depending on your load out.

1 Like
63

Here’s my idea for a skill tree system

I just don’t want to see the same old skill tree or a giant web tree.

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64

Precisely. It would also be interesting if the abilities unlocked would act like charms in Hollow Knight which can be switched around at will, and limit it to 3 per weapon type. By equipping 3 different weapons types, you would have 9 abilities.

In another post I suggested combo linkers that allow weapon switching like Bloodborne.

By also implementing abilities related to combo linking, some very unique weapon loadouts could be achieved.

1 Like
65

am i the only one that feels like the game would lose nothing in quality and just feel better overall if our inventory wasn’t hard locked behind upgrades?

  • yes you’re the only one you silly billy
  • no i agree with you
0 voters
66

I would like a best of both worlds scenario.

Can’t wait to see what their taltentree is like

67

So I have a couple of ideas here, but I currently do not have the time to read everything, so sorry if this has already mentioned.

I voted for both systems and my brain suggest a couple of things. While I agree that POE trees are a bit to extreme. Yes it gives you flexibility, however you can film the entire lord of the rings trilogy on it (extended btw :slight_smile: )

But, what if there are skill trees attached to each of the four damage skill (eg. str, dex, fai, int) and if you put points in there you will get skill point for the respective tree. That however still poses an issue:

Say you wanna play as a tank, but you want more fire damage, which is in the mage tree (just spitballing here). Then you need to invest points into int which will do nothing for you and feels bad. But it was already sugessted, that these stats could have secondary benefits. Not much, but a bit. That way, you at least get something out of your stat points.

Regarding the tree, well there are runes in the game. How about runes are categorized into these stats. The skill tree could for once alter these runes. Say Icethrow (oh here we go :joy:) could be transformed into a sword circling you for a limited time. Or it could stay as long as you have focus. It could also do things that reflect the seconday properties of your stats. Say dex gives you a bit more stamina regen, then you would find stamina related perks in the dex tree.

As I said, sorry if smth like this was already mentioned :see_no_evil:

68

I wanna add smth here. WOW solved this and I found that no too bad. You can craft / buy / find items, that you can equip and it will increase your item space. Smth like that maybe. Because currently, it is not a good solution…

1 Like
69

Besides the suggestions that are made here, i want to point out a potential problem, that is build diversity.

The best thing would be to have lots of different possible playstyles. But the difficulty here is the balancing, so maybe not too much though. You should be careful not to create a “Hammerdin ftw” phenomenom. (For everyone who doesnt know it. That was an overpowered build in Diablo II, and you could do other builds, but this one was the most powerful)

If there are tons of different possibilities, but only a handful is viable, there are effectively only a handful in the end. You should avoid “must have” build components, or “one way builds”, because they limit the diversity massively.

  • “Must have components” would be “i am a tank, i need that rune”
  • “One way builds” would be something like, “if i use Strength, i need a two hand sword”
1 Like
70

Yes, imho, no game ever got better by limited inventory. Except for one genre, that is horror games.

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71

Just wanted to mention that the poll results from this post are in:

From the ‘Most Popular’ suggestions out of 81 voters, 64% wanted more options to build their character. And, from the ‘Popular’ suggestions out of 80 voters, 31% wanted better ichor rewards.

I think it would be a great idea that the ichor system get’s reworked and then added into the talent tree in some way. It would then be killing two birds with one stone.

72

Also a reminder that there are 3 days left to vote on the poll. We are currently on 60 votes, if we get 9 more votes. We would then have a Nice amount of total votes. :+1:

73

100% this. With, of course, some kind of capping system so that people can’t just farm ichor to unlock the entire tree.

1 Like
74

I dont think that a Talent tree make things better.
A charme of a Souls like Atttribute system lies in the fluenty.

People are like " i love a Talent with +10% Attackspeed"
And i say why not attack 10% faster when your Weigth is in the Light category?

Thats too simple? make it 1% for every 1% in the light caterogry up to 10%.
Oh you change your 1h dagger to 2h curved sword, sorry you loose 7% Attackspeed.

Which such a attribute system its very hard to find a Meta or best. I think its better than like 5 Points here for 10% Attackspeed, 5 Points here 10% bonus damage etc. …

Of coursse the current attribute system (non bell curve) and non Souls like cannot give this result.

The same with weapons. Make Weapons less demanding. Maybe half of the Stats and the Stats on Weapons mean Scales up to. Mean in Endgame you have some specialized people which maybe STR only Weapons for maximum Damage and some allRounder which can change Weapons more easy. Maybe 10%-20% less damage but they can use Str and Dex Weapons etc. …

I mean in the current system gain less Weigth on Cloth enchant is absolete because you have nothing because you are in the nLight roll category. But with such bonus system you have no “trash” enchant.

1 Like
75

It is almost frightening how much i can disagree with one person. :wink:

There are so many full soulslikes. This game is beautiful because it is not “yet another soulslike”. It has also arpg dna (and not just a bit) and for arpgs, talent trees are basic basics. This is why people want it.

In an arpg you will never have an “allrounder”. If this were possible, it would render the specializing useless. You can and should have hybrids, i.e builds that still specialize, just in uncommon ways.

It boils down to

  • with a soulslike you have to think what you are doing in combat
  • with a arpg you have to thing what you are doing with your items/build

and here we have both and it is fantastic.

1 Like
76

Something akin to Fallout series is the inclusion of Perks or Pokemon Abilities that can remove by drinking Ichor or something.

Fallout: Like Vampirism gaining movement speed and wieght load increase at night and lifesteal at night since there is a Day/Night cycle.

Fallout: Strong Back gives the character X amount of weightload increase to use heavier armor and weapons.

Pokemon: Chlorophyll in having the character regenerate health in sunlight.

Pokemon: Damp ability that doesn’t allow explosive projectiles to cause extra damage in DoT.

77

I like the attribute system, except that certain weapons are gated due to high stat requirements. I believe all weapons should be equip able, but either damage halved, or runes won’t work unless scaling stat is invested up to the required number.

Also, I feel equip scaling is way too high for the stat pool. 30 x 3 is 90 total points across 8 stats, 3 stats being essential for survivability (health, stamina, equip load) one stat essential for mp(focus) = 12 average points across the board. If assumed that players would minimally invest 50% of points in the essential 4 stats, that leaves 45 points divided amongst 4 optional traits, an average of 12.5 points per optional weapon stat.

That margin is too unforgiving of early game misallocation and or build choice. I understand with 3 equippables, you don’t want players having dual or even triple op builds on one character(30 base across 4 stats, faith, strength, dex and int would be insane).

so perhaps the resolution to this is to allow for pre-spec builds instead for 10-point allocation across the board. so, if your pre-spec is mage, you get 3 less base stats in faith and strength, but 6 extra points in intelligence and focus

78

No an allrounder is aware of his allround Character. He knows that he doesnt deal the best damage but he can maybe use a Bow when he has a problem with a Boss Attack pattern.

Its alot easier to make a Attribute System with all people inside “Bounds” then fantasize of a Single player Game with a dozen Classes without make bosses trivial. Classes are for GROUP Play but for Single Player its a road to arbitrariness.

79

I really have trouble understanding what you eventually want.
To me it appears you just dislike that you are not able to test out all weapons (what i somewhat understand) and thats why the attributes are bad.
But somehow also “people want to take away” the bossfights from you. This seems to be some fear, but i really do not get from what exactly.

May it be, you made a character, put all attributes in everything to test out everything. But then it turned out to be a quite unfortunate character build, and now you have a “failed” character and are just angry about everyone else? And then… maybe there are other people that made builds that work fantastically, and “they have it too easy”, so it’s their fault that you have trouble with bosses?

If i am anywhat close, just make a new character, and learn from past mistakes.

80

Whe the game says you can play a 2h barbarian because you have a 2h talent tree and a barbarian talent tree. The people expect to kill the boss.

Thats means every boss must be possible for every combination because a talent combination “cant be bad” or the “class is bad”.

Classes and talent trees gives expections. Expections must be the lowest common denominator. That means in a Single Player game with a width variety of Classes bosses cant be hard.

81

I’ll take that as a yes :wink: