A lot of people seemed to want an additional way to build their character. Talent trees achieve this since players can more easily visualize the class they are building. The system becomes more interactive and also gives players a sense of progression since we can see our future talents. Which also allows us to plan out our build.
Also as a side note, generally in RPGs you don’t to spend your attributes similar to a uniform distribution. You want to specialize your character in something and pick attributes that further aid you with this.
I also highly disagree with the statement that classes for single player lead to arbitrariness. If anything it is less arbitrary since you are now locked to a class and committed. Furthermore, if all classes fulfill the DPS role then it shouldn’t make boss fights trivial. Some classes might have an easier time then others, but, that is mostly due to melee vs range. Melee will always be harder, in WoW raiding people take more ranged dps over melee dps due to the incentive.
Talents for me are very final and Masteries are something you can learn.
This fits better into the sacrament “becoming a hero” storyline.
Instead of using the current boring ichor system why dont we use trainer NPCs like this weapon mastery guy in the north of sacrament for this purpose?
Melee Weapon Trainer → 1h,2h, Shield Masteries …
Spell Trainer → Staff, Wand and Elemental Masteries …
Bow Trainer → 1h, 2h Bow Masteries …
Filmore can train you blacksmithing (use lesser resources maybe)
Each NPC Trainer offers quests to skill your masteries. For example:
2h : Kill boss X with only a 2h weapon
Shield: During Boss fight X parry 20 blows
Bow (tier 1): Kill boss with bow
Bow (tier 3): Kill boss with bow without getting hit (final tier for example)
This would be more fun to achieve. Collecting ichor (+1 Talent Point) from a random boss mob which can be used for everything is pretty boring.
Every Mastery has its own questline as u will. This would also support the soulsliky side of the game a bit more. Very skill bound achievements for specific upgrades.
To go even further you could make mastery bosses kind of unbeatable for specific builds to prevent or to make it extremly hard or even impossible to achieve e.g. a high tier melee and high tier spell (like a full paladin).
An example would be:
To achieve Tier 2 Spell Mastery i must kill a boss with very high physical resistances and big punish you for standing in front of them
hmmm… its very exploitable and hard to implement i guess.
But there must be some kind of locked into a specialization. You should not be allowed to achieve full melee, full spell and full bow all in one. On the other hand it must be possible to have intersections with other masteries. Maybe you can only have one tier 3 mastery (if tier 3 is max in my case)?
In the end i would prefer a more wicked-likisch approach which fits into this wonderful handcrafted world. Not yet another complex blown up node tree. I mean i really like complexity but it must be well hidden so you can reveal it step by step.
It’s very difficult to answer this without knowing what it means for the current system.
Right now everything that might count as an “ability” comes from the rune system. Would the new system add a bunch of new abilities, get rid of runes, or shift certain runes over to abilities?
One idea i had was to tweak the weapon system so moves become available at stat breakpoints. This way you could use the base item in a limited fashion with low stats and then things open up as you improve the relevant stats. Tying this to runes in some way could work too, but gets tricky with the current enchanting system.
Regarding enchanting, it would be cool if the enchantment system took the current imbuements into account in some way so that you could influence how the enchantment comes out.
im not changing my vote, but suggesting a new kind of talent tree: a weapon talent tree. unlocking tree would unlock weapon slots for that weapon type.
But can you accept, that after put all Points in Range combat (Golden middle way) that a boss has no Range “Window” and you must use of a 1h/Shield combo?
Is the boss good? When you Talent tree is useless or is the boss “wrong” designed"? Litterall all single Player RPGs have no “hard” classes. Like Deus Ex, System Shock etc. … its more matter of some things are more easy, some things more hard. Most of the time these Systems give you another Gameplay path. But where is my “Hacking” console near Echo Knight?
Like Sphere Grid in FFX/License Board in FFXII where it is expansive or a simpler Dead Island/ Dying Light: any typical game?
Cuz I’m envisioning something like League of Legends Mastery Trees that you don’t have to earn points to put into it, you have automatic points to put into all values you want to change to fit your character into being one of the classes of Enchanter/Bruiser/Assassin/Tank/Marksmen/Juggernaut etc.
It’s the cleanest and longest lasting “Skill Tree” League has been using for about seven seasons now. Within reason that it’s the cleanest and effective they’ve developed.
Not saying to copy/paste abilities, but to use the foundation and bones that Riot has created.
I come from RPGs so I wanna earn points as a sense of progression. You work for your talent points and then you get to spend them, it is part of the fun. Getting everything at once means you lose the sense of progression. For league this works as some matchups require keystones at the start or you can’t lane for example. Dota 2 handles it differently, you gain talents as you level up, which gives a natural sense of progression. For league I like the automatic points, but not for Wicked.
I would like to see something similar with the class ideas though. So the sorcery tree would be the intelligence tree, precision dexterity, etc. I personally would like it to be double the size. I think that is warranted for the amount of depth they are aiming for. I’d like to see at least 12 talents and maybe 1 ultimate talent/keystone.
you seem to be one of the very few honestly.
if you dont think the game would be worse with better inventory qol then it doesnt matter, better is better even if current is good enough! but if you do think that improving inventory spaces would make things less fun, then i’d love to discuss and know the reason behind that
yeah honestly i dont mind inventory upgrades but fuck the ichor holy shit it’s so bad
also i dont think they should show you how many inventory slots are locked/you can potentially get. this is gonna influence only fresh players, buti think it feels nicer to say “oh shit look how many slots i have” than saying “oh im getting closer to unlocking everything”.
same logic behind hiding the elden ring map and slowly enveloping it, its more pleasant to be surprised by the unexpected than to feel like reaching a completion target (at least in this context)
Ichor as a basis for a keystone system is a natural choice imho.
This perfectly works for the lore (what is not a really unrelevant point for immersion). I see this as a form of corruption/ancient power/eternality/spice/life essence/plasmids, whatever you wanna call it, infusing the character with some mystic power, as a big “reward” after hefty battles. Maybe with a story based plot twist or smt, idk.
It can be a fundamental progress step into some direction of a specialized character. I.e. a little bit into the direction of PoE keystone passives, with drastic changes in the mechanics. Or as another example like in BG3 with the ilithid powers.
It could even storywise reward players that want to keep combat hard and chose not to use it, leading to unchanged soulslike combat styles.
→ Effectively, joining the two fractions here that fight over all or nothing in this post, while it should be more about how those two can synergize.
This can easily coexist besides any other progress system according to player levels. So it does not matter if there are attributes or talents, or whatever.
Keeping those separated makes it relatively easy to adapt for balancing
i dont see how an ancient power awakening in you giving you more inventory space is immersive or even just logically coherent; ichor can stay, but not as an inventory upgrade. that is a cheap concept, it works clunkily, has a poor execution, and for the greatest majority of people feels overall bad.
it can be used for many things, but not for inventory upgrades in my opinion
Ichor for Ring Slots AND Inventoryslots are problematic because the same ressource for combat and non combat.
Its like Elden Ring Talisman bag system and more or less maxed out Act1 for 1 Weapons Set.
Its maybe better to chain the different Inventory Spaces at the Upgrades for the Buildings.
I’m seeing Ichor be the basis of allocating points to keystone/rune/skill trees?
This would give @RomoloHero their idea of progression too which is logical and a good way to flesh out the allocation of points into the roles they will play in multiplayer or class types.
Act 4, level 46-60, talents 10-12, further specialized talents
Assuming 4 acts, 12 bosses, even leveling and such.
But, I never really realized that this makes a lot more sense when we use Ichor as talent points.
I think it is a very good suggestion to use Ichor for the talent points as the sense of progression feels really good. And, it is a great incentive I think.
In Elden Ring you have Talisman bags (up to 4) which can be use to flesh out you Build. Use Wepaon Arts often > use talisman which boost you Weapon Art. Use extra heavy Armor > use Talisman who buffs your Weigth.
In Wicked you have Ring Slots which can be used with Ichor from bosses. Thats ingame now So maybe its better to use this system and expand it
1. Ichor is for Ring slots only 2. Inventory Slots are linked to Sacrament Building Upgrades. Rescue the Chef and Build is kitchen > more Food Buff inventory
Blacksmith > greater normal inventory etc…
So its very good to Upgrade these Building indepentent from you own equip.
The Rings
The Rings are the only Source ingame Resistance versus Status effects. Cloth or Plate doenst have it.
Make Ring Enchants Unique. Like Overall Weigth +10% When normal Items have no “global” enchants. Weigth less is item only.
The first Ringslot is Open. Maybe close it and Open it with the first Boss before Sacrament.
Balance the Ring Slots maybe 4-6 for all Acts. And the Effects.
Thats the Elden Ring “Specials your Build Experience” without Talent Points and Resets, because you can Change Items. The crucial bosses can maybe drop “Unique” Rings. Better than Weapons you doesnt use because of wrong stats.
So we have maybe 4 Acts. 2 Slots per Act1-3 and the last Act you are Ready and can test your “full Build”.
Enchanting
SO Armor can give only Numbers Enchants like 5 Stamina or 10 Health. Rings give always % Values like 10% Stamina, They Suppport you normal Enchants and the unique Character hold them inside Bounds. Weapons and Shield can have have special Enchants because you have them not in 4 Slots.
The Level of the Equip, Level 1 / 11 / 21 change the Number of Stats per Enchant. Why? Its bad to have a ideal low lvl enchant at maybe cloth.
When the Armor is of no use because you use cloth the more High Levlel Items becomes more or less obolete when they have no more Stats.
I don’t know. Is it going to be something similar to Path of Exile? Where every point is 1-5% into a stat? Will there be a mix of redundant stat upgrades and occasionally a fun stat that might change the way you play? How often would you want to get a talent? If we get talent trees, does that mean the armor weight system goes bye bye?
Its a difficult decision I think. If it replaces, it needs to carry the weight of the stats as well as making picking talents “Fun” and “Diversify” the builds.
I would love to see what they go for and how much tweaking it will require to the game as it is right now as well as later on.
