UPDATE: Poll Results: Suggestion from the Developers: Switching the Attributes system to a Talent Tree

I don’t know. Is it going to be something similar to Path of Exile? Where every point is 1-5% into a stat? Will there be a mix of redundant stat upgrades and occasionally a fun stat that might change the way you play? How often would you want to get a talent? If we get talent trees, does that mean the armor weight system goes bye bye?

Its a difficult decision I think. If it replaces, it needs to carry the weight of the stats as well as making picking talents “Fun” and “Diversify” the builds.
I would love to see what they go for and how much tweaking it will require to the game as it is right now as well as later on.

I didnt read through the entire post so I dont know if it was suggested previously. Maybe have the ichor give you talents instead of the inventory management it is now.

Why not Ring slots like Elden Ring Talisman Slots.

Here the Talismans from elden Ring which has no fixed “builds” because you can exchance the Talisman when optained.

Really liked the ER talisman system.
Ichor atm is just for the ring slots anyway.

Also like your idea to link sacrament building upgrades with inventory expansion (e.g. the cook can give you the food tab upgrade). :+1:

Quick reminder that the poll closes tomorrow, 16/05/2024 at 18:00, CET I think. So get your votes in, if you haven’t already :+1:

Without any context, I can’t see why anyone wouldn’t choose both.
Attributes for weapon requirements, and a Talent tree for specialization.

Are Talents going to be used to compliment the crafting system? Because I would love a talent system with choices that allowed me to craft higher tier equipment / consumables / throwing items. Akin to choosing a profession of sorts. That would also give purpose to multiplayer coop characters having diverse builds. Even increasing the effectiveness of items would be neat.

Some examples:

  • Fletcher tree, crafts arrows->elemental arrows->special arrows
  • Armorer tree, can manipulate weapon/heavy armor stats / traits
  • Leatherworker, same as Armorer, but with leathers / cloth
  • Enchanter, can combine jewels into higher tier jewels, can take off a rune, or jewel without breaking the item
  • Alchemist, can make throwable bombs of any element, consumed items last longer, can consume/throw an item that buffs/debuffs all nearby players/enemies.

If Talents are going to be more combat focused…do we unlock the ability to use specific weapon types (like Salt and Sanctuary)? If I choose to unlock “Sword” talents do I get to unlock techniques to add to my move set (like runes)? If so, this will promote players wanting to build specific characters with early game intentions. “I want to build a sword and shield character, and will spend my points to further that goal”. Due to loot being randomized, will I be able to respec easily to use a new awesome item I just picked up?

Haha, glad to see someone had the same idea as me for allowing talents for professions. Also, I’m with you on the talent tree and attributes, it just makes more sense to have both.

I made a pretty detailed post about it and other talents if you want to give it a read:

I don’t mind, but I’d rather they focus on more important things

1 Like

I think the Feat System is bad.

We have Weapon Choice by Stats. An Overlay with a Weapon Feat make the Weapon choice very small.

The same with armor. Choose a Armor Feat at the begin of Act1 for Light Armor and you feels that you are not good enough to dodge and needs heavier armor the bonus is obsolte and the char “broken”.

Find a Super Weapon but it has no Heat Damage und your Element Mastery is useless? Shit

Combine this with random Enchants. In the end nobody has the courage to drink the stuff because its restrict you for more power and behind every corner can lay a item that makle your regret the choice.

D%D System for Souls combat is wrong in my opinion because something like Attackspeed, Weaponrange, dodgerolle all this things are nonexistent.

You should probably comment on the post itself, rather than this one.

Please not trees.

Just add depth to the attributes, gems and runes. The problem is there is not enough depth to attributes, gems and runes. People are reaching for the most obvious / familiar solution.

I think even with more depth to attributes, gems and runes. There is still a lack of class/build identity and progression. I come from RPGs, I just want something to look at so I can see my build options and theory craft. I like to do this before I play the game, so I know what I am working towards.

This is 100% speculation but, I do think most of the RPG players want a talent tree and attributes since we are used to having both. Whereas, the Souls folk want a complex attribute system, since that is what they are used to.

And since Moon studios decided they want to create something in between, they might want to come up with a New solution instead of falling back on things that are tried and tested. Not something that we can decide here.

Starting to dislike the idea of a talent tree more and more. Combat is already super trivial except the Echo Knight nothing is a real threat and is taken out within less then a second.
A talent tree will add only more power and abilities, if you add a talent tree Moon will have to redesign every enemy every boss most likely level design too. Simply to compensate for the new powers players will get.
Besides taking a very long time to implement, this change the game into something very different then advertised imo.
If they wanted a talent tree they should have started on it at least a year ago not during EA.
I just get this nasty feeling that ppl advocating for a talent tree want to dumb down the gameplay because the game is “too hard”.
I could be wrong but I have heard no one ever complain about Soulslike games not having any build diversity.
Yet somehow here people want it, I just hope Moon sticks to their original vision.
Just my two cents…

Would you say that it feels trivial because you overleveled the content? I feel like thats the case because the crucible is supposed to be End Game. And you get to grind there to reach level 30 and the current content is balanced around early to mid 20s the way I see it.

It feels trivial on my alts around lvl 10/15 tbh.
You just need to get a good rune some focus and presto OP build.
Also make sure to wear plate…
I am wearing leather to make it a bit dangerous now.
And also I look like a musketeer which I think is cool :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t play them for that reason specifically and the lack of immersion.

A talent tree adds more depth since there is more interaction between systems which in turn makes it more complex. Now, if they add active abilities, which I really doubt. Then I can see it dumbing down the gameplay to an extent. But, if it’s passives bonuses or passive interactions; which I think they meant. Then I think it’s great.

The poll is closed, I’ll be updating the OP and title.

We had a total of 131 votes, so thanks to everyone who voted :heart:

Which do you prefer for Wicked?

  • 66% prefers an Attribute System and Talent Tree.
  • 21% prefers an Attribute System.
  • 11% prefers a Talent Tree.
  • 2% prefers Other.

Feel free to discuss this.

Lol, tell that to D4. The skill tree full of MEH. You don’t need a skill tree, it does not guarantee anything. It’s just one way to do it. In addition, not all RPGs have skill trees.

Lack of emersion? Not sure what SL you played, this is one of those very subjective things I guess

I haven’t played Diablo 4 so I wouldn’t be able to comment on it. But, from what I have heard/seen it is just a bad game. So I’ll take your word for it that the skill tree doesn’t feel rewarding enough.

If a skill tree is done poorly then yeah I agree with you. However, it still adds a sense of progression through the visualization of the talents. It also gives people a sense of direction, and realization when they finally get the talent they wanted.

The lack of immersion when comparing a soulslike to a CRPG such as Rogue Trader, Wrath of the Righteous, Kingmaker, Baldur’s Gate 3 etc. Soulslikes focus more on combat and you have to find the lore, whereas with the aforementioned CRPGs the story and roleplay is the driving factor and combat takes on a secondary role.