My personal favorite is proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
Yet, it is fine for you to misconstrue what I say, make assumptions about my intentions and pov; the hypocrisy.
If my last sentence upset you too much I’ll remove it. Maybe then you can respond to the arguments and facts presented. You know be reasonable, and listen to other people 
Rather than demanding I can’t partake in this discussion. Maybe have the decency yourself to actually read what was typed and check my posting behavior. I often enough engage in discussions and listen to other people. I have yet to see someone in here post a valid argument in favor of nerfing.
I know I’m just going to rile you up by replying but in another thread you tell people how to get an OP weapon.
I followed your advice, eventually got a weapon which in conjunction with other gems, rings etc can create a feedback loop which literally keeps the Echo Knight stun-locked for large parts of the fight. Thank you very much.
But in this thread you’re against it. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
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Might wanna reread my posts then, since I am heavily against the loop I describe there. I even mock it, by comparing the complexity of the loop to doing the dishes. I’ll just let that sink in…
Its great, because if its Not supposed to be that way, now the devs can fix it. If it is, have fun.
The important thing is to get the last word in I suppose.
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I am enjoying it at the moment, thanks. I get on every day for a while, farm the crucible, get some coin, buy some upgrade materials and see if I can get any weapons and armour. I’m enjoying the conversation too. It’s lively and everyone is passionate about this game.
However, if something gets nerfed, so be it. I will roll with punches. However, I will try and make the best, most powerful build I can with what ever tools the devs give me at the time.
I’m expecting a lot of things are going to change between now and version 1.0. Looking forward to seeing how it all takes shape.
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No, that is exactly what you are trying to do with that reply.
I responded to this, since what you typed is a LIE. Whether you simply misunderstood or are trying to be disingenuous I will leave that up in the air. So, if someone calls me out on something that is blatantly false, I will reply to it.
To reiterate: I am against the blacksmith lottery and focus neutral rune spam in every post.
Thanks. I think it’s abundantly clear now. I appreciate your clarification.
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And that’s why we let you express yourself as much as you want!!!
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I express my opinion based upon experiences and argumentation, which you always ignore. Looking at your post history you do the same with other people. I am not the only that takes notice of this.
You express your opinion by throwing a temper tantrum demanding that you and your opinions are catered to and accommodated. Maybe stamp your feet on the ground harder. I have yet to see any argument from your side across the multiple posts that you are brigading.
You only call people selfish for impeding on your ‘‘fun’’, unbeknownst to yourself you are what you accuse others of.
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Is there some moderator who can close this discussion maybe. I think we are reaching salt levels here where nothing will grow out anymore. 
And of cause:
Here… me, me, me!!! 
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There is no reason to close a discussion in which there are people who really contribute ideas. What cannot be allowed is for there to be intellectual and moral geniuses calling anyone who does not think like them a “fool” and an “idiot.”
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Nerfs and Buffs are inevitable.
In the future we will gain more affixes, a talent tree and possibly more depth to enchanting.
The more options are added to the game the higher the probability of broken builds appearing. Sure, enough time has to be given to players to find these possible meta builds.
Then has to be decided which builds are healthy and which are unhealthy. Builds that abuse mechanics and interactions have to be nerfed. Builds that underperform can be buffed.
Stunlocking the Echo Knight involves abusing mechanics, the nerfs were justified. Most people seem to agree on this.
I agree. Each side has pointed out their opinion in an objective manner long ago. Now there is only “but you said X” “no, you say Y” ping pong, that does not help any side or cause.
So if i could vote to close this, and just all calm down and see how it plays out, i would.
And repeating ones opinion 100 times does also not help anyone. I think what has to be said, has been said on both sides.
Or maybe i just mute this thread for me, and you guys can fight it out 
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A bit late to the discussion, but I would offer my perspective on balancing, as I can see both sides of the argument. The current patch was done badly in a balancing sense from my pov. Only pushing out nerfs demotivates players and does not positively encourage experimenting.
TLDR
I am for diversity and proactive Meta Shaping, through both nerfs and buffs.
How to have a Fun Meta
- Nerfs feel bad. Buffs feel good. We need a balance!
- True balance between builds is impossible. There is always a Meta. Use it, don’t fight it.
- Nerf clearly busted outliers with undesirable play patterns (perma-stagger). Ideally give alternatives and make sure builds are still playable.
- Buff weak and underused things. Don’t be afraid of big buffs and overbuffing, as shaking up the Meta is the goal.
- If a build is strong, but also offers a desirable, engaging playstyle, keep it strong and use it as a benchmark for other builds.
Sidenote
If this game was singleplayer only and not have the ambition of lasting for a long time, balancing would be a totally different story. But for a game that is meant to keep players for a long time, we need diversity. Regular nerfs and buffs are a very useful tool for that if used right. Especially now we need an active playerbase!
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The thing I’d like to see the most are incentives for various playstyles through affixes and possibly the talent tree. So players can diversify their playstyle. Currently we don’t have a lot of toys to play with hypothetically speaking; that being said it is EA.
I believe the next big patch will give us two new zones and T4 equipment. I would like to see some affixes that might lead to new meta’s and playstyles. Maybe some auto attack or charged attack based affixes. The biggest thing I would like to see is more incentives to use different runes. The current system creates competition between runes rather than encouraging different runes for different situations. I think having more reactive gameplay in terms of how runes are used creates a more healthy meta. Where players slot various runes to accommodate their playstyle or create unique combo’s. There is a lot of untapped potential.
If we have more tools and variables we will have more meta’s, so we can have better targeted buffs and nerfs. Playstyles should be almost equally viable with some overperforming over others. Rather than having one meta, I would like various meta’s for various playstyles. In WoW for example, some pure DPS classes have 3 specializations. One always pulls ahead over the others. But, the others are still mostly viable to an extent; 1 specialization is often considered bad depending on the expansion.
I think the most important thing to do is create more incentives for different builds so we have more build variety.
You are not late and also contributing ideas and seeing the situation with perspective from both sides. It’s what I’ve been asking for for a long time. You have to nerf and buff, not just nerf. And there is no need to end up with powerful builds that require time, patience and money. A different thing is a weapon that is unbalanced and that can be easily obtained.
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I agree. Currently its pretty easy to figure out what is the strongest, as we don’t have many variables.
Take Runes for example - They need more differences to be able to compete on different levels. These differences can come in various forms:
- Distinct mechanics (CC, Zoning, Status, Defensive, Boost, etc.)
- Cost difference (has to be significant)
- Cast time difference (again - Have to be significant)
- Range / Area of Effect differences
- Duration differences
- Power Armor
- Cooldowns (would have to be added)
- Synergies and Build around (can happen through keywords/weapon affiliation/targetet Affixes/Skill Tree)
Well these are just a few to demonstrate, that there are many options, currently not explored.
On another note: One thing to consider would be, that it is already possible to encourage new play styles through somewhat simple buffs, to shift gameplay in different directions (e.g. reducing Stamina cost for bow attacks and allowing to build Focus and boosting bow base dmg would encourage playable, smooth and possibly more diverse ranged builds from the start, without much effort).
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