Hello! I find myself being able to take down enemies pretty easily using a one handed sword and spin rune. Hit them twice to get focus up, spin attack, stagger them, then hit another once or twice to take them down. This feels a bit like cheesing. Perhaps a nerf is needed somewhere. What especially feels like cheesing is when i can fire off 2 spins in a row. Perhaps a cooldown is needed between abilities?
This strategy feels like it goes against the combat system you are trying to develop as it makes taking down enemies a bit too easy.
Trust me a lot of people dont want the runes/ focused nerfed and im not sure why. I even want runes tied to stats so if youâre making a warrior build you cant use fire throw or fire ball or ice dash cuz at the moment you just stack focus stack focus regen spam your favorite rune. Running around using fire throw on a 2h sword hitting every target for 120 twice with unlimited focus. iT wouldnt be possible if you had to have 42 int or it can only be on int weapons. Im obsessed with the game but theres a reason that 99% of rpgs have requirements on gear and or having certain stats tied to certain spells. I just feel like every build needs pros and cons and at the moment theres only pros to every build ive made.
I will always argue against cooldowns. Theyâve never been liked by the ARPG communities and I donât think Wicked is an exception. They already require a resource, Focus, to use and I think we can balance them properly just with that.
Iâll agree though. Many runes trivialize fights, whether itâs because of a low Focus cost, too much damage, too much stagger power, or all three at once. Thankfully these are all numerical issues which are the easiest to solve. It might be best if the community were to review each rune to assist Moon in balancing them.
I certainly donât want nerfs across the board. That is exactly how Diablo IV went down in flames. I do not like when people want all the fun of a game nerfed into the ground. The majority of players play games for fun. This is coming from someone who has been playing for 37 years, every Diablo, Souls games, etc. Nerfing everything is not the answer. If you nerf all fun components what then is the fun in the game and where is the power fantasy? Not to mention, these are all things the devs test before putting out and are obviously okay with how they were developed.
This is just a nitpick of one minor thing you said it doesnât mean I even disagree with you, but the problem with your statement lies in âwhere is the power fantasyâ that implies that every decision is made with the intent of giving players a power fantasy. If you truly have played soulslikes then you know that part of the design of that genre is to not have a power fantasy, itâs to feel like youâre truly going against a being more powerful than you and finally triumphing over it
I disagree heavily on the souls games not having power fantasy. If you level your character in those games it is extremely rewarding. You can effectively build a tank that can cast any kind of magic and use nearly every, if not all weapons and armor in the game. Thus, the power fantasy in all the Fromsoft souls games/Elden Ring is all infused in it and is absolutely amazing. While they do have balancing in those games, like all games, the devs do not nerf everything into the ground.
For instance, in Elden ring, my character is 400 something level. I can wear the heaviest and best armor in the game, use heavy weapons, sorcery, faith, the fingerprint shield, etc. It gives me a ton of customization to my character and does not force a mechanic/mechanics to be nerfed into the ground to balance the game. So far, because of people on this forum and the streamers, the devs here are beginning to go the route of nerf all the things that bring fun to the game and are indeed part of the power fantasy that is being removed, based on a small portion of the player base.
Yeah IF IF you do this then your time is rewarded with a power fantasy I do not disagree with that decision at all who doesnât want to steamroll through the soulsborne catalogue of bosses a few times with a hard-earned build & experience. You ainât walking up to Margit or Pontiff with a level 400 character capable of one-shotting them though most people arenât even hitting level 200 much less 400 by endgame & the devs also give clear tools meant to make the game easy for people who just want to turn off their brains. Everything is built with intent in regards to the full game. This game is in the prologue though and everyone is crying about nerfs in the prologue to spells that has allowed us to kill a boss in 2 spells. You can have a power fantasy, keyword can can CAN, but the crying about nerfs in this game I have contention with because those people want to make a power fantasy the default, baseline, no brain experience which I despise. People keep talking about nerfs in D4 as if that game still isnât a power fantasy fest.
This implies masochist self-flagellation canât be fun, I enjoy both types of fun. I like slow deliberate combat which hates you(Dark and Darker) and also ones that make you a god amongst men(God of War, Devil May Cry, etc) my whole problem with nerf-crying in this game is people act like you canât be OP anymore due to the nerfs when thatâs just not true. You can still make a build thatâs just you pressing RB+Y until EK keels over, with 20% more effort. Anyway Iâm done with this conversation because these threads get repetitive weâve probably already discussed this somewhere else
Itâs a never ending debate Plains. There is an effect happening here calledâŚ
Note Plains, this isnât on you, I just wanted to reply since I see you in here advocating for the fun to stay which is what I want to. Okay back to response.
I used to find Racing hard. I understand them now and they are easy.
I used to find Monster Hunting Games Hard. I understand them now find them easy.
Itâs always hard to have this debate because everyone must first understand why they find it easy and why they find it hard while also taking into account your past experiences and knowledge and understanding of everything in-between.
I personally found No Rest Brutal to learn but after going through the ropes thereâs no way Iâd ever say itâs easy to obtain this strong state either. RNG plays a heavy role as well as understanding all the metrics of attacks and runes.
It took me nearly 200hrs to finally figure out how to âcheeseâ this game and Iâm sorry, but thatâs not easy by a long shot. I donât go to Youtube and watch best build videos either. I have no problem admitting it takes me longer to learn than others, but I believe thatâs because Iâm not just looking up answers like most do today which I am not faulting at all but must take into account when talking about these things. We canât just talk about No Rest itself and only itself and not also talk about the people who have and never have made games like this easy for themselves.
Thus why this argument is always tough to have, especially in TEXT FORM. I really dislike this way to communicate. no tone, no emotion, no respect lol.
Wish all the best and Iâd much rather see Universal Capability before more nerfs. That is making and giving incentive to swap Weapons and Runes because fall off of capability isnât as extreme like it is now.
dark souls games had several big nerfs, for example the bleed nerf in DS3
its really baffling to me, how on every post the same people immediately answer with âdonât nerf it killed diablo 4â.
diablo 4 is ded because it is blizzard and their monetization, company practices and server stability issues are a huge problem since diablo 3 and people just donât want to incentivize that. everyone throwing money at blizzard and complaining later that the game sucks is at their own fault imo. streamers and nerfs did not kill diablo, blizzard did.
its getting very tedious reading the same argument a hundred times tbh. no offense.
To be fair, D4 is in a much better state currently, in large parts because of dropping the nerf mentality.
They also introduced Quality of Life improvements, vastly improved the itemization economy by reducing the RNG Involved in decent gearing, more intentional Build variety⌠Tending to the lower lows, while keeping the higher highs. Key being that they also raised the bar in the endgame!
Unrelated to the overall resulting experience, Wicked could use some changes in a similar direction⌠I emphasize: DIRECTION. Donât make Wicked like Diablo please.
Hitting twice with the same Rune is okay imo. Spamming it endlessly without Counterattacks isnât. The Stagger mechanic is a bit unintuitive. Iâd love to have some weaker CC mechanics (at least those with little activation time), that are instead more consistent. Spammable abilities should not CC as much. I personally think Iâd prefer slower attacks for strong CC over cooldowns, but I could live with both.
well, maybe there was no nerf mentality, maybe they just finally achieved a balanced state. i honestly almost canât take the whole nerfing is bad discussion anymore.
They actually utilized a pretty âcheapâ process balance wise. The base game is trivial currently (any build can beat it, without much effort) and the endgame is limitless â How far can you get? They also enabled some more build diversity (still lackluster), for the highest competing builds. And there is a lot more stuff to do â Fun > Balance.
I get you. I truly do.
My dream state would be a constant flux of nerfs and buffs around a general and well communicated idea on how strong and popular a playstyle should be. This way people donât talk about Nerfs in the same way. They talk about the Meta instead - What is (too) strong currently, what is underused / weak and needs some love, What did or didnât deserve a Nerf â âWhatâ not âifâ. Much more interesting. But we are still a long way from that.
What I hate the most is that we have all seen these topics and have had these discussions before. Honestly, I cba at this point. Iâve seen over a dozen topics about Rune/Focus/ARPG vs Soulslike discussions. We see them pop up every week. Most of us are familiar with each others names and view points on the forum at this point.
Having these discussions after a big patch or update makes more sense to me. Like when we had this big discussion:
Forum activity isnât as high as it used to be, we are going in circles at this point.
Iâd much rather see some discussions about new things to be added to the game. A different take on Runes or Focus for example. Not just the ââthey took my jobââ, ahem, I mean ââthey nerfed my stuffââ topics.
Maybe something about independent focus gain for runes, charges to runes and cooldowns idkâŚ
