Thanks, yeah I agree, especially personally for me I feel like the combo of stacking effects and heal on hit are big ones. At first I thought it was nice things had such big percentage changes, but then I started combining them which did immediately feel good (this is the feeling I guess the developers want people to have doing it), followed by a hollow feeling that the game changed under my feet.
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even amidst the disagreements and divisiveness this seems to be a pretty common feeling; let’s hope it’s picked up by the devs!
Wow, this discuassion is … heated. 
I think, that the current state of this game is actually full of potental, however, I agree on the point, that is does not utilize it, yet.
The transition to just spam runes is not that bad, but it comes to early and currently the game does not account for it. However, the transition from “You feel not powerful” and “holy moly, that’s insane damage” is not that much of a problem, if, as I said, the game accounts for it.
Let me make a small trip to Eldenring. A lot of people had problems with the end game and I agree with that. Enemies deal too much damage and you don’t feel powerful. For me, that was a downer, altough I finished the game with all bosses. I think the problem was, that the devs didn’t know how to deal with your power in that stage of the game and just scaled everything to over 9000
But, this game has shown, that it can transition its combat over time and I see an opportunity here. Instead of nerfing everything and make enemies deal a ton of damage and have a lot of health, why not make you fight small groups.
Say, you can delete weaker enemies and this may be very much required, since you face of against two knights, a mage, an archer and a tougher dude, that you will definitly not mow down in two hits.
You kind of have to use powerful abilities to get control of the situation quickly, still requiring skills like dodgeing. In this situation, you will need your complete toolkit and it could be much more action packed and, well fun. The tougher dude will require more soulsy combat mechanics.
Idk, but I think, this could be a lot of fun…
you’re cooking, but oh boy are you cooking with pepper.
a diagonal shift from the soulsy combat to the diabloey combat over the game progression is interesting and new, but scary as shit.
a lot of players risk feeling betrayed by this, because the game doesnt pace consistently with the expectations. might be being too cerebral, but i’ve gone from loving elden ring to… “the first part is really good, but man this game overall feels fucking AWFUL”. 350 hours invested in it.
and yeah the fact that i started feeling like i was playing a MOBA instead of a soulslike blew my brains out like a point blank shotgun. personally i think that is a bit scary, but i can see a vision where the game can guide you throughout the process in a way that feels delicate enough to be fun, unlike elden ring where 5 minutes after exiting leyndell they chop your sausage off and throw you into a hell pit.
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Eh.
It always leads to the same result. I have seen in it Diablo 3, now i can see it in Diablo 4. People quickly learn what the “true potential” of character is and treat it is as a norm.
Then with new characters they complain leveling/campaign is sluggish, too slow, they want to play TRUE FUN game with overpowered build from the get-go, because everything before that is a waste of time for them. Simultaneously they ask for more density, because why not? Nothing is a threat anyway.
This is why over time Diablo 3 was giving full sets at the beginning of season. This is why Diablo 4 is now starting to do something similar. Funnily enough it is often counter-productive, because instead of usual 10 days before mass-complaints about boring season, they start to do it after 5.
Diminishing combat to one-click spam is a recipe for yet another dull arpg that revolves only around spinning the slot machine.
The game is indeed much more soulslike than Diablo like, you have a stamina bar, parry system and fighting hordes of enemies here is suicide, in Diablo is normal gameplay. Just because you have a similar looting system doesnt make the combat more Diablo.
It is a ARPG though, since the dialogue system, although rich, is not like BG3 for example.
I see your points. However, I still fell like (and I might be wrong about this), that this game is quite different in a lot of aspects from diablo. For example, you do not have fixed classes, which should not result in “you are a mage so use this spell…”…
But it was trying to make another point and my suggestion was exactly that, a suggestion
From my perspective, souls like comat in eldenring overstayed its welcome and the endgame felt exhausting.
Example: “Hey a beastman, he does that, sooo parry, reposte, charged attack, that move so roll, backstab, done” … “Hey a beastman, … you know where this is going”
It felt, well boring. I was trying to make an example, on how to maybe evolve the formular. And the problem with rune spamming could be fixed with cooldowns for example, if it becomes a problem.
But hey, at the end of the day, we just try to provide feedback, so we can get a great game. Because I reaally love this so far and I hope this will become ever better. 
And btw. Nioh 2 did this as well and those encounters were really pumpin
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It doenst help when nobody use it.
Rune Focus attacks doenst drain Stamina.
We have % Focus gain on damage ingame.
Means i have a Weapon with 7% Focus gain pro Hit (include Rune Multiattacks)
I can have 300 focus = 7% = 21Focus per hit
Rune Attakcs hits 4-6 times means i produce more Focus than i spend
Means i Stunlock heaviest Enemies with 2 Focus Attacks in a row. And i kill them with 1-2 Runeattacks which follows and my Stamina usage is zero.
My Focus is replenished, the cost zero.
My Character is more helicopter than human.
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Yeah but Elden Ring many enemies you never outgrowth. Your window for failures becomes bigger, you can use Parry because the miss will not kill you etc. … Yes you can outgrowth (Sekiro is alot harder) but than its time for NG+ and not play Boss in the kindergarden.
In regards to the misleading labels. Their entire marketing campaign was misleading, the interviews and even the way that the game is structured in the first area before entering Sacrament are misleading.
During the interviews both owners of the studio pitched the game as having and i quote “pixel perfect precision based combat” in a hand crafted vertically designed world. There was a ton of emphasis on souls like games and mechanics and animation driven combat that requires skill and is slower paced as it caters to a more methodical approach.
There is nothing precision based in end game…its Diablo with lower mob density. If i want that i can go play Diablo. The way the game was presented was souls combat with a top down view/perspective.
They said they built the engine for this game from the ground up yet it turns out its done in Unity and Photon. This explains the bad performance because when you actually really build something from the ground up you know it like its the back of your hand, you don’t stab in the dark afterwards with hotfixes that are hit and miss.
At the moment Thomas is on X telling people they will add whips because Castlevania, gondolas because fast travel, a new talent tree because the current system is soooo polished that there is a need to build on top etc etc.
Meanwhile performance still sux, hitboxes are, im sorry but the proper word is, garbage, there is input delay on both types of controls, keymapping is a half baked joke with keybinds falling off and having various limitations in terms of customization just for the sake of it, there are no tooltips, the attribute system is messed up, combat is anything but what was promised etc etc
The scope of this game is so big and it gets bigger and bigger everyday that i find it very hard to believe that a smallish studio can pull it off especially since the most basic stuff isn’t fixed. But who knows maybe they are gods of game dev. The state the game is in now, after 6 years in development, tells me otherwise.
The game is awesome until Sacrament then its a entirely different game. And i get it, there are people who like what ever this game is. I personally have no idea what it is or how to label it. Its like whatever comes out of a blender when you mix stuff. Be it building simulator, walking simulator, crafting and gathering simulator, platformer, mobile game. All i know is i was sold something that turned out to be something else entirely (what ever it is its not precision based combat) and that to me is very misleading especially when packaged in a way that exploits the 2 hour Steam refund policy for EA because me, like the gullible person that i am, spent a ton of time exploring the entirety of the first area before fighting Warrick thinking the rest will be a step up not even thinking of a refund. Oh the naivete, oh the surprise :)))))
I would have really appreciated a honest transparent communication where the product is presented in a straightforward way with a clear, detailed roadmap not that 3-4 step plans for the future so i know exactly what Im buying and if its not for me, no harm no foul, all the best, but at least i could have made an informed decision. And yes, one could argue i was foolish to buy the game first day without doing further research and one would be right but i wanted to support the devs based on the vision that was sold prior to launch. Atm I’m having Peter Molyneux flashbacks :)))
What can i say, you can take the man out of Blizzard but you cant take Blizzard out of the man ;). Kudos to the marketing team and the snake oil salesman.
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I disagree. The vision for the game is to find a hybrid of these styles with a unique flavor. There are issues at the moment, which MOon knew and is why the game is in Early Access to iron these wrinkles out. This was the breakdown I posted to another post.
While it is not as methodical as parts some soulslike games, I think it still is a fair bit closer to souls than diablo-clones. The end-game is in a very very rough placeholder form right now in the current form of the crucible, that players can be +9 levels above that content. Diablo clones tend to be more focused on being flashy and extremely fast-paced.
With that said, there are areas of combat that need a lot of love, I’d say mostly surrounding runes, focus, and on-hit affixes.
It is a very heavily modified version of Unity. For a lot of studios, building an engine truly from nothing is not worth the return compared to modifying existing engines.
The game does change after Sacrament, but that is like a lot of games. The prologue/introduction area is more limited before the rest of the game opens up. People tend to get overwhelmed when all mechanics and tasks get thrown at them at one time. I’m not saying you have to like what opened up, but it is extremely common practice.
This tends to get developers more hate, and can actively work against Early Access. What if something wasn’t well received, or maybe the community came up with a brilliant idea? Well, then you probably need to throw out a chunk of the roadmap and redraw it up. If people had a detailed roadmap and something changed, people would complain about that or an expected update window being delayed.
You don’t have to like this game, it isn’t for everyone. I’ll even admit I think labeling it as “reinventing ARPGs” wasn’t the best route while also bringing in the Diablo and Soulslike comparisons. But there is even a disclaimer on Steam
This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development.
Just because you don’t like the direction of the game, doesn’t mean it is a bad game.
Here’s the thing if you turn it into Diablo with low mob density that is your choice. I am over here at 70 hours still fighting mobs & bosses mano a mano with a curved greatsword on my quality build, hurling fireballs while fighting melee for focus, and using bow with a parry build dagger. This game is whatever you make it be and to insult multiple gameplay systems insults the progenitor of RPGs back in the day where they did try to include multiple player fantasys such as Fable which did have legitimate pros to its design & wasn’t just all overhype.
The game is what it is, i haven’t gone to the future and back to analyze what will be. The combat right now is bad, the game has an identity crisis. Something was promised in the interviews and something else was delivered. Its that simple and there are no excuses.
Regarding the engine, their exact words were we created the engine from ground up. Unity was never mentioned. So this is not something i said its in their interviews, they said it. Again they said something and its something else. I see a pattern here.
The prologue/introduction if we are referring to the area before Warrick is the only area that delivers on the concept of vertical level design. Nameless pass is as linear as a LoL map.
The game opens up what? The mobile game mechanics, the time gated challenges and bounties, the back tracking, the tedious gathering that requires button mashing:)) What exactly did you perceive as overwhelming because for me they were easily understood for what they are, artificial time sinks.
Regarding the roadmap you dont make a valid point as they already stated they are willing to change large parts of the game. Since its in EA that is to be expected. Basically what you are saying is that its ok to not give a clear view on what you are selling in order not to scare money away. Newsflash, if something isnt well received its probably because its either crap or you arent selling to the right audience.
Yeah, you are right, i dont have to like the game and for what it is now i dont. And thats perfectly fine, its not for everyone, I agree. The problem is that what the game is wasn’t communicated properly and when you pretend money for something its ethical to actually provide clarity. Stop making excuses for bad practices.
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Fable was actually one of my favorite game series. I played all 3 of them more than i care to remember. Peter Molyneux was famed for overhyping his games back in the day. If you don’t remember look it up :))) The first 2 were the best and the 3rd was objectively bad. Same with Black and White. First one awesome, second not so much :))). To this day i dont know if the guy was a genius or a pathological liar :))))))
Wicked in 2024 has less innovation than Fable the Lost Chapters had in 2004 if you want to go down the route of originality. This has nothing to do with rpg precursors or whatever fantasy you might be conjuring.
Name one, a single one mechanic in this game that is original. You cant, you wanna know why? Because there isn’t anything original its just a little bit of everything thrown in. There is no identity its a jack of all trades master of none.
And yeah, back in the day they included multiple systems in games, they did so in a clever manner while respecting the players intelligence and time.
This sounds like you haven’t fully explored it. Especially the prison area has a lot of verticality.
I never said I was overwhelmed. I’m saying for a general software design standpoint, you don’t want to give everything to your users at once. I never felt I had to go out of my way to gather. Especially as they greatly enhanced the speed of gathering, I just grab stuff as I go. .
I think that just reinforced my point. That is standard practice across most of the software world—the agile approach. You even admit big change is to be expected, so why would they give a detailed roadmap that may change drastically as well? If you aren’t sure if you’ll like a game in its current iteration, go watch some of the thousands of hours of content that has been put out already to get a better idea. Otherwise, just wait for 1.0.
I don’t think you can call a game with 78% positive ratings at this current moment as not being well-received. It seems you are just an extra bit sour that you don’t like it and are trying to take it and others down because of it.
Let People Enjoy the Things You Hate.
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Well yeah it’s been 20 years later since Fable existed, far more new mechanics & systems have been created, tried, & implemented since then. Assassin’s Creed’s parkour was revolutionary at one point what is your point here other than trying to mock & demean this game constantly? Are you gonna tell me the rune mechanic isn’t awesome, the balance between infusions & enchantments isn’t cool? The crucible isn’t cool even when it’s actually hand-crafted & not just procedurally generated aka it’s trying something new?
The handcrafted levels is something I absolutely love in this game. While procedural generation has its place, the levels feel pretty amazing with how they handled them!
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Yeah, hand-crafted is great. It’s just early so there aren’t many options to pick from yet. I assume they’ll add more.
Most definitely. We only have a small, unfinished portion of what the game will be 
I think it’ll be the type of game that many play for a good bit, then put down for a few updates, and then come back to playthrough again with all of the new stuff.