New Gearing System Announcement Feedback

Wicked Feedback
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Hello everyone I just heard about new enchantment system plans from Ginger Prime’s last video (https://youtu.be/ElK4G-O1gRA?si=A66u1i0ITyEVtvTo).

Go to 10:00 of the video*

And what I heard gives me bad signals.

Let me explain:

Currently our enchantment system is like farm embers and add/roll on items. But the plan that they have in their mind is make it into like divide items to tiers and each tier items drop with certain amount of enchantments already (means we wont have to spend that much ambers to add enchantments on gears comparing to current system) which I kinda love the idea till now.

BUT HERE COMES THE JUICY PART!

They said that only 1 enchantment will be re-rollable now and exalting (with ambers now) will be 4 times for random enchantmens to increase its power +%50 for each time.

I know it sounds better than the current one but the problem in here is with the current system we have control on our gearing so we know that if we farm enough ambers and farm enough pestilence we will have our dream gears with a little luck. But with the new idea we won’t even be able to guess how much amber will be enough bc exalting now costs ambers and its pure rng so the gearing loop will be like farm ambers exalt till you get what you desire reset the item if you don’t get and repeat the cycle. And good luck to you to farm your dream enchantment-gear cuz’ now we have to farm the best-enchantment combo item since we only will able to re-roll 1 enchantment.

Dude D4 already made this kinda choice and it suffers from it. This is so much rng and if you don’t announce a real good target farm system you must not announce this kinda gearing system change. Even D4 have various target farm options for materials but the drops are never enough because of the rng is sucks.

So the new exalt and enchantment nurfs feels like %95 rng based now and it dissapointed me so badly.

PS: I have played D4 like every season expect couple of seasons. And I have played NRFTW like +300 hrs and just let you know I havent touch D4 after I started Wicked, even if its on early access the game is satisfying enough to not play D4 for me but hearing that they copying the same itemisation system from them is a huge red flag for me.

Let me know what you think and if I missing anything.

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I also follow Ginger Prime and After I saw the video, I went to the Server and responded to Thomas’s feedback request (Regarding the changes for the Enchanting System) this is what I wrote:

“Hi, Thomas, the Enchanting System is one of the topics I’m most passionate about!

I’m concerned about the new Enchantment Tiers, as they make weapon scaling exponential, making things harder to balance, especially if you have a weapon above or below the appropriate Tier, or have a weapon that’s lower than the appropriate level, While power spikes might be interesting when you go up in Tier, there can be serious problems if they are not balanced really well.

Perhaps bosses should drop a key item (to be given to the blacksmith) that unlocks the next weapon Tier to ensure each weapon is in the appropriate Tier.

Disenchanting!?!?!?! Thank you! (Alleluia).

Re-rolling Changes Are ok considering that you can now disenchant weapons.

The New Exalting system I DON’T LIKE, It seems to make the grinding for the perfect weapon extremely tedious and RNG-based.

My opinion on RNG implementation is that it has to respect my work (and my time) and this system you presented to us doesn’t seem to do that. And if what I’m trying to say isn’t clear I hope this example helps:

“Imagine, you work for a month and at the end of the month you get your salary, but instead of it being agreed upon in advance, your employer spins the wheel and pays you based on what comes out.”

This is the system you proposed, it’s a system of this kind that doesn’t respect my work. Working to get what I want can be more satisfying but it is only on the condition that I know that my work is paid fairly, not that there is a possibility of that happening xD.

Finding enchantments by rerolling already doesn’t meet this criteria, but adding that once a perfect weapon is built a random stat and not the one I want is boosted by 50%, means that I have to start over again if I want to get a perfect Exalted weapon.

In General the changes seem like a step in the right direction but they don’t seem to solve the problems I’ve encountered.

I wrote a topic in the Forum, where I talk about the problems I encountered and I propose a very detailed solution (a REWORK that is simple to implement) that solves the problems and offers new opportunities to the system, and I think that it is also an Idea that respects your Game design Philosophy: The RNG Problem, Enchantment System Vs Gem System (Major Edits) I hope it can be implemented & or that it can inspire positive changes.”

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I chuckled hard at this, hahaha

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I totally aggre with your proposals and ty for perfect examples that explains the situation very well.

I mean if they wanna implement some gear systems from other games they must take PoE gearing instead of Diablo..

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Oh ur one of the goats that knows the lore huh kekw xd big salute o7

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The new proposed reroll system is the stupidest, most laziest way a fifth grader would come up with to create chase items.

We don’t have infinite time to invest in a game and games should not be a chore or a fulltime job. If I wanted that, I’d go play a Korean MMO.

Here comes the juicy part:

They don’t actually listen to feed back anymore, not at least here in the forum. They say something like that once in a while to get the Discord server going.

If they really cared for feedback, they would have players that have more than 500hrs played in the game, in a proper PTR. But they don’t. They’re going to rush out 1.0 soon to avoid financial calamity, the time for feedback is over.

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I have same concern with you.

Based on my assumption in the new concept, they want to address a few issue:

  1. Block player from using free reroll mods with enchantment’s slot lock. Which free reroll mod appear because of not optimize reroll system (my suggestion link).
  2. There is no uniqueness/difference between item in the same category, the only different is appearance style/ cosmetic. I think they want item to have disparity value (RNG enchantment, each item different) for future “trading” between player, which denied theory craft in equipment build as player lack control in choosing enchantment. Or Dev could give player an ability/ system to craft their own enchantment (using mats/ gem) at expense of lower max value.
  3. The lack of RNG thrill on random drop, when player could craft it using fallen ember. To counter this, the Dev could make random drop to have special tag, like have max value increase by 5-10% for 1 specific enchantment. But lose it when disenchant.

All in all, I assume their intent is to make player have different experience in each play session and have long replayability. But at the expense of didn’t respect player time, too much grind (at workstation table) with uncertain result.

Or maybe they have this new idea to complement future update of class system, but IMO for now the new concept offer too much disadvantage rather than advantage.

Let’s hope Dev formulate the new concept with wise decision and deliver it as player want and need.

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Unfortunately it seems true x(

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Like I said if they would come up with proper endgame farm this new system would be acceptable but let’s be honest even the big brother Diablo4 still can’t manage their own endgame farming system.

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It really shouldn’t be that hard.

Keep the current system and create actually unique items that are worth chasing and are only obtained through end game activity such as:

Properly fleshed out Crucible.

Pestilence and outbreak events and bosses.

It’s really not rocket science.

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I think current team thought that they can get paid easily with minimum effort by copying other thrash systems that already existing on other games instead of keeping it with style..

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I’m not sure if I’m understanding this right - if they implement this new system, the weapons/gears we pick up in the game will only have one re-rollable enchantment and all the rest are locked in? If that’s correct, that system doesn’t sound appealing to me. For us to get to the build that we want, we not only have to farm embers but also pray that we will be blessed by the rng deities that the particular enchantments that we need for our planned build will be on the very specific weapon and gear that we hope will drop randomly from enemies and chests. This makes theory crafting and min-maxing infinitely tedious that it won’t be worth it. If this is the case, then the game, imo, will lose it’s endgame appeal for a lot of people. I love the system now. It encourages, at least for me, to go back again and again to farm and try out builds that I think will be interesting. For that particular process to change to something that’s going to be infinitely time consuming is a great disservice to the current player base. If the goal is to make the game more challenging and interesting, there are lots of better and more creative ways to do that.

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Thats how exactly I understand it as well and have the %100 same concerns with you.

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Wicked, I don’t know why you have these huge pessimistic downpours but allow me to rebute.

This is not the goal or expectation for most players so far I’ve seen. You see people constantly talking about saving their ‘experience’ because the appeal of the game is great, and they actually stop playing so they can save the best first-time moments after 1.0. I think that’s more then fair.

This is speculation only you seem to put forward. Unles you have insider information or you’re well versed in game economics, is there a reason you keep repeating this?
Because the psychological explanation is that you are lowering the game’s reputation in your head as to lower the blow of disappointment that you are preparing for to follow.

So that leads to this:

You are more then right to say that huge portions of feedback have been neglected, ignored or not been read. But to say Moon doesn’t listen to us is not fair at all. They do on countless occasions, reading back Breach Refined patch notes will indicate that. Bugs, Feedback and Features all have been altered, introduced or retired because of us, the players.

That includes you Wicked, even though there is hardly a way to verify what has or has not been heard, on your account players and devs alike have been making notes. A scribble here, a note there.

I hope this brightens your day just a little bit :wink:

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Months ago Thomas Tweeted about having only enough money in the bank to run the operation for a few more months if sales did not pick up.

Later he made a request from the community to come up with ideas to increase sales.

Recently he posted about how the 1.0 is going to be a lot sooner than expected.

It’s not that hard to put 2 and 2 together my friend.

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one reason i play NRFTW and played more was because i like how the crafting system lets us craft our god tier items with enough investment.

i am DONE with forever games like POE which leaves everything to RNG in a very unfavorable way towards the player.

POE does not respect my time. LE does it much better, but ironically is worst than POE when you’re at the very end game and you’re trying to min-max. its like LE knew how to respect player’s time but at the end bit it showed me the finger.

RNG is good, but make it be too much RNG, i will simply learn not to play the game.

whenever anyone posts a godlike item crafted in POE subreddit/forums, i stare at awe for a while before i remember “this wont happen to me”.

me and my IRL friends have played POE for ages off and on. 2-3 of us including me have played over a decade. non of us dropped a mirror, head hunter or mageblood. all were bought.

please dont make us grind the way i did in poe. i want to enjoy the game. and really, i m done with lottery based crafting. for sure currently its still a lottery, but its exponentially easier to craft a good item now as theres a lot of determinism.

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exactly

and this is why I can’t even play the game now because knowing that they will mess with the current system it doesn’t feel good anymore

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its an interesting effect. when a game dev adds something that fundamentally changes something that we appreciate, it can go to the point of just ditching the game.

i used to love Last epoch as it respect players time more. drops are much more lenient and you can start crafting even while leveling during the campaign.

also there used to be a lot of build diversity where you could make “anything” work. for sure some are exponentially better than others but the bar was low. corruption 100 was where most players were expected to reach.

then they took the POE route of catering to the overperformers. they introduced abboroth and later uber abboroth. they also gated powerful exclusives behind him.

you were now expected to run a highly optimized build. as a person who loves organically making my build work. i feel punished. why am i, a person who actively and passionately engages with the game’s systems have a worse experience compared to some random “tourist” who just follows a build guide that some bloke posted online?

i’ve experienced this in POE. and one reason i went to LE is to make my own builds work. when abby was introduced into the game and the harbingers leading to him required me to be able to hit corruption 300. i felt the game had effectively turned into another POE.

i have since quit the game. i tried their new season for less than an hour but i was quickly reminded how i needed to hyper optimize my build or else i’d miss out being able to do content in a reasonable amount of time. i have zero hype for the game now. and theres no way the devs would rework the boss down to a lower level as he’s already been in the game for months. i simply recognize the game as “not for me”.

for sure NRFTW has some OP builds but i dont feel that an optimized build is too necessary in NRFTW. the issue right now is crafting.

i have matured. i know enough to see what the devs are doing. the dopamine hit can be greated for getting a great craft using a high rng crafting system, and it would also indirectly force players to play more hours as they need to hoard resources for trade. big numbers make the game look good.

but all this is at the expense of player fun. some players DO find this chase fun. but not for me. in anycase the devs already have my money as i bought into their EA. whether i continue playing in the future or uninstalling forever depends on if i feel im the target audience for this game.

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I understand what you guys are saying but i really dont feel like it’s that much of a problem. With this new system you will also be able to disenchant weapons to re-enchant them, really giving an easier way to re-roll weapons and armor. Sure it wont be as easy to get a ”perfect” weapon or armor piece but i think that is for the better. At endgame right now it takes like 10 minutes to make a weapon perfect with enough fallen embers which isnt really right either.

Hopefully they will add some sort of target farming as well to make it slightly easier to find specific weapons and armor. Either way i think this will bring more excitement to the loot.

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and thats the biggest reason for replayability and create multiple builds but now with the new system its gonna take forever if I wanna create more than one build..

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