Make Str, Dex, Int & Fai have additional effects

Wicked Feedback
25

Thanks for your comment!

Yeah I think that stat requirements for weapons restrict us even more than a classical class system, which is kind of ironic because that’s what they are trying to avoid. I believe my suggestion allows for the player to make up whatever class they think they are playing with whichever weapon they prefer and adding a flavor to it. It also allows for people to play variations of what they think a paladin is. “im playing a Faith/Dex paladin with scimitars because to me a paladin is a desert faith warrior” for example.

Anyway, about the stats themselves.

Strength: I think the weapons should have a poise damage multiplier themselves, where the weapon uses say 0.8 (or 80%) of your poise damage. Or for example bows have low Strength poise conversion 0.3 or something.
I have another idea for Weapon stats that I will write about in the future and kind of goes hand in hand with this one.

Faith: I also thought about that, that you can combine Int+Faith and have really spamable runes, but that’s the thing. I like that as an option. If you invest heavy into runes you can have that kind of playstyle and it should be balanced because it doesn’t affect damage. If you invest purely on Faith and Int, you will suffer in some other area, for example lower weapon damage, speed, poise damage, etc… Also, it might mean that you need to also invest in Focus (although perhaps not as much as pure INT) so its quite the investment, so that would be a kind-of natural balance. Int+Faith should be a viable option with its own drawbacks.
In a way it’s similar to changing it to damage because you can spam the rune more times. However, if you make it so that the cost is reduced, it plays a bit better with other stats in my opinion. For example STR+Faith allows for a build where you don’t need to invest so much in focus, or you rather use a utility rune; which is the other thing. Buffing damage makes it so support runes don’t benefit from it. I think Faith could be a good utility stat, so that’s why I think rune cost reduction is better.

26

Then help me push my proposal so it gets a voice as well.
I hope that the developers don’t go for the democracy is supreme way, because a lot of times people might vote without having any game design knowledge or understanding.

We can only hope and try to get the developers to listen to proposals and gain interest in our ideas.

27

Just so you’re aware, the attributes are getting changes.

28

On second thought, I think you’re right.

I had arguments to why i thought it was okay like that, but I think indeed perhaps Faith needs to change. Although they don’t do exactly the same, because some runes require more focus and so Intelligence does benefit more from a larger Focus pool, whereas Faith requires less of a focus pool.

What this translates into is that You can use certain runes with less Focus investment, therefore making Faith better for Utility, or specific rune usage. And Int, is generally better for high cost runes. Having both, allows for more rune uses which I think could be a viable option.

Anyway, another thing that could make Faith and Int different as I designed them, is to make Focus be used for other things besides Runes. For example, certain enchantments could play around Focus, etc..

If you have a suggestion for a change for INT or Faith, feel free to post it here!

29

Fantastic thread and post as always @Psytoxin :slight_smile:

I totally agree with the idea you should be able to use weapons without having the appropriate stats, albeit at a significant downgrade in efficiency or some other form of punishment like animation time or equip load.

I feel like I remember Thomas Mahler mentioning on twitter that they are planning to include more function to stats beyond just unlocking weapon requirements. Let me see if I can find the post.

EDIT: someone linked it above!

30

Correct me if I am wrong but do none of the stats increase weapon damage in these changes? Or is Poise Damage also just Base Damage as well?

31

They don’t increase damage not directly.
The damage will increase from other things like being able to cast more rune powers or attacking faster, or stunning an enemy faster.
Now, I don’t know if this system would also require a damage bonus from stats, however I think theres many solutions if it requires damage scaling.
Gear enchantments, better weapons, weapon upgrades, etc.. should cover it easily

32

It would be weird if weapons stopped scaling their damage off attributes. Whether or not it would work I can’t say, it would just feel weird since I can’t think of a game that didn’t have attributes affect weapon damage.

33

Yeah, but then you’d have similar problem where your weapon defines a lot of what your stats are going to be. I think that if the devs want to give us greater freedom, then the damage scaling needs to not be inherent on the weapon.
There’s plenty of games that have weapons where the attributes don’t affect the damage. It just means that the design of the enemies and so on needs to take that into consideration.
One of my favorite games ever called Battle Brothers, the weapon defined the damage 100% and the attributes are things such as hit rate chance. Then there’s abilities that make the weapons more effective and so on but never from attributes.
Excellent game btw, 100% recommend it.

34

Ya dude stats feel bad. Decided to make a full faith build I’ve found like three one handed blunt weapons that are all tier 2 and a tier 3 two handed staff. So basically I’m a wizard now with one of the most op spells in the game. It’s definitely ruining re-playability for me I think. Also my dex guy has a massive two handed hammer lol.

35

Based on the weapons I found so far (about 80h play time), it seams that there is a weapon type for almost every damage stat distribution.

I mean dex, strength, int and faith.

While this is great (I love the fact, that you are not locked into a specific playstyle), it creates an interesting situation.

Let‘s say, you want to play as an archer. You could now level pure dex, or int/dex or faith/dex. The outcome will be the same.

I see an opportunity here to maybe improve the situation and improve the replaybility of the game.

If those four stats would have secondary effects, then it would impact your stat choice way more.

Say:

  • Strengh also increases equip load and maybe stamina. Not as much, as the main stats for these areas, but a bit.
  • Dex has an impact on your stamina regen.
  • Int will maybe give you more focus.
  • Faith could increase the amount of healing you get from all sources.

This way, an archer with pure dex will be different from an archer with dex/int.

36

Hello everyone, I’m opening this post after spending quite some time reading numerous posts and discussions on various aspects of the game.

What I’d like to address in particular is the current functioning of the attributes, specifically strength, dexterity, intelligence, and faith, which currently serve primarily to grant access to higher-tier weapons. However, these weapons are not necessarily stronger than weapons from previous tiers; they simply require fewer upgrades from the blacksmith to reach the current maximum power value.

Personally, I appreciate that there isn’t a significant numerical gap between a low-level weapon and a high-level one because it allows players to choose the types of weapons around which to build their characters without necessarily having to consider boring parameters like damage, thus expanding the range of choices and customization for everyone.

However, at present, I find that investing points in these attributes does not provide sufficient benefits. Damage scaling is rather low, and it’s easy to risk losing entire levels invested in one of these statistics simply by changing weapons, as if you don’t use a weapon whose damage specifically scales on these attributes, they won’t influence your character in any way.
This problem contrasts with the advantage of customization gained by making all weapons equally effective in numerical terms, as it flattens any form of character building through the stat system. Therefore, I’d like to propose some ideas to add passive bonuses to these attributes, gradually altering the character’s playstyle based on how they’ve invested their attribute points.

I hope you like the idea. If so, I invite you to propose alternative ideas or to support this post. If you don’t like the idea, I still encourage you to leave your opinion so that we can create a constructive discussion. For now, here are some of my ideas:

  • Strength: Investing points in strength could directly influence carrying capacity. Each point could grant the ability to carry 2 additional weight points. Additionally, strength could passively influence any form of physical damage, adding 10 or 20% of the total strength value to physical damage inflicted regardless of weapon scaling.
    At the same time, the attribute could have a greater impact on the shove obtained when in heavy load, inflicting more damage to the balance and thus influencing even heavier enemies. Additionally, it could also affect the mechanics of charged attacks, further increasing their damage or speeding up their charge time.
    It would be nice to have a unique animation for charged attacks for characters with a high strength score.

  • Dexterity: This attribute could passively influence the speed of certain animations. For example, it could make the activation of consumables and runes faster, improve movement and sprint speed, allow for wider dodges, and provide a bonus to backstab damage.
    Unlocking the ability to punish staggered enemies with a riposte once a high dexterity score is reached would be desirable.

  • Intelligence: This attribute could function similarly to strength. Each point invested in intelligence could increase concentration by 2.
    Additionally, the attribute should influence any form of magical damage (Runes), adding 10/20% of its total value to damage.
    Intelligence could also affect spell casting speed and further amplify damage.
    Obtaining unique magical effects by casting charged spells with a high intelligence score would be desirable.

  • Faith: This attribute could influence the effectiveness and duration of buffs.
    A character with a higher faith score should be able to provide better healing and buffs to themselves and their allies.
    Faith should also affect the speed at which concentration is recovered. Additionally, faith should influence elemental damage inflicted, equal to 10/20% of the total attribute value.
    It would be desirable for a high faith score to grant access to additional rune slots.

I apologize for the perhaps overly long post, and I hope that the proposed ideas are well-received! I also apologize for my poor English; I hope the post is understandable. Unfortunately, English is not my native language.

37

I really like the “improving charged attacks” part. Never thought about that.

With “faster activation” you mean something like “cooldown reduction”?

I really really like the idea of faith affecting buff duration and effectiveness

38

With “faster activation” you mean something like “cooldown reduction”?

I wasn’t so much referring to the cooldown of the heal, but rather to the duration and speed of the animations, which especially in the activation of certain runes I’ve noticed to be a problem that has often led me to be interrupted by an attack.

39

Ahh ok, that makes more sense i guess .. fits the dex theme better (e.g. quickly grabbing a potion).

40

nice ideas
The Game Devs i imagine have their plan for the game but i hope they take a look here. some interesting ideas to spice things up

41

really nice ideas I like them!
Even if perhaps the dexterity risks proving to be a little too op!

42

I am now on my third character with over 80 hours played. I’ve seen Thomas’ tweet about them changing up stats here’s the issue and a possible solution.

Issue.
Stats have been a major topic for me and lots of other players. Main issues being there doesn’t seem to be much diversity in builds or the way you lay your stats out between multiple characters. And the four main stats(strength,dex,int,faith) don’t feel much different because of the randomness of the weapons required stats

Solutions.

Instead of adding in effects to a stats. Example strength increases melee Damage, dex increases crit chance, etc. they could easily just make changes to affix’s on items and weapons.

Also they could tie runes to different stats.

Examples

-health

Health doesn’t need to change much it’s Benefits are good enough. But they could maybe tie all the thorns type affix’s on weapons and armor to be affected by max health.

-stamina

Right now you maybe only need to put a few points into stamina on any build to have it work effectively. There are a few things I think could have players choosing stamina over focus spam builds.

1.bows- with the recent changes to bows having their main arrow attack use stamina.it just made them even more op I can cast cone shot more often now then previously and they seem really imbalanced.

I personally think they should get rid of the focus requirements on all of the bows attacks and have them use stamina instead.

This will change the bow from being just another focus build to being a stamina build. And give an extra factor to the class. Having to worry about spamming your attacks and also being able to dodge. And to remedy this more points in stamina less worry on focus.

2.basic attacks- there should be more affix’s that give bonuses to basic attacks. Right now 95% of the builds you only need to smack a few times with basic attacks to regain focus or not at all just use focus potion. They don’t have nearly as many affix’s and or quality compared to runes damage and rune spamming.

They could add basic attack speed, basic attack damage, crits with basic attacks %, crits damage with basic attacks, the health steal on damage % that’s op right now can be tied to basic attacks only.

Hence fourth giving an option of being a more stamina focused character

  1. Charged attacks- They could add an affix that takes more stamina the longer you hold a charge attack in exchange for more damage.

Then you could have charged attack builds that are reliant on stamina because they’ll tap their stamina for their charged attacks and still need some for dodging blocking or parry.They could maybe place this affix on weapons that are charge weapons.

-strength, dexterity, intelligence, faith.

I like the way weapons scale with you stats but the randomness of the requirements on weapons makes the choice between these 4 stats seem less important. With intelligence and dex builds being able to wield every weapon and use every ruin.

My favorite example is the intelligence 2 handed sword. I think the way the weapon should work is that the only Runes you can put on it should be int runes like fire ball or chain lightning.

They only need to change some runes to be tied with stats and add more in. I’ve made a topic on this and I’ll link In The first comment. Easy fix and I think it makes for interesting character builds.

-focus

Focus is important on every character you make right now you need enough with regen to be able to cast runes and it destroys right now. They don’t need to change much for focus they just need to incentivize other stats.

Maybe small nerf. Like with harder areas arriving in the future with harder monsters. The tier one runes that we have right now Should drastically scale down and we should have to upgrade to tier two runes which cost more focus and do more damage.

-equip load and weight class.

Issue.

On every one of my characters I’ve just put enough to keep me from being over encumbered. Heavy is best imo you have most defense shoulder barge is really good and you can just get plus speed on items.

Solution.

Have different armor types give different variables to their affix’s and different affixes.

Examples

Cloth- can have higher % on all Focus affix’s, affix for rune damage, affix for additional intelligence or faith (adds 3 to intelligence), higher percentage for speed affixes

Leather- can have higher % on all stamina affixes, damage for Stamina using attacks affix, affix for additional dex, higher percentage for speed affixs

Mesh- can have affix for additional strength and faith. Healing affects affixs, charged attacks affixs.

Plate- can have affix for additional strength, thorns damage affix, melee damage affixes

Of course you can get any stat still on any armor the above listed per category will just be higher then That you can get on different categories

Thanks for reading let me
Know what you think

43
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I don’t necessarily agree with the proposed design draft but I do think the stats mentioned lack identity and need some kind of overhaul. I think it’d be nice to be able to adjust scaling on some weapons or have an affix give scaling, right now the build variety seems to be finding the right amount of survivability and then just dumping points into whatever stat your weapon innately scales with. That method of character building doesn’t seem to align with the goals of the devs or what people want.

I was thinking it’d be neat if the different attributes gave a respective bonus to certain types of elemental damage, opening up playstyles focused on different elements. If, for example, strength gave a bonus to fire elemental damage you could have a character with a greatsword who can justify weapon swapping to a staff for ranged fire abilities even though the staff might not innately scale off strength. Give the strength stat extra identity by allowing it to also very slightly increase your equipment load and you can make a sweet fire battlemage-y thing in heavy armor. Alternatively, have strength increase poise damage (as you suggested) and you can build a character that wants to stagger enemies before dropping a meteor on their head. Toss in the ability to adjust weapon scaling and you can get both your greatsword and staff to scale off both stats, strengthening the performance and build identity even further.

But yeah, hopefully the devs listen to some of the feedback here and refine the stats a little bit. Some of the justification for the lack of stat identity seems kind of weird and I think arguments for the current system are generally pretty weak.