I see % damage when damage taken on the thistle ring. I also see in the spreadsheet that armor can have this as well. This seems to work with lifesteal. I have over 100% thorns on my gear, thinking this would make replacing the ring easy, but it seems to do way less damage and not proc lifesteal. What’s the difference between these two stats? Is the ring damage based on my weapon? And is thorns based on incoming damage? Is that calculated before or after mitigation? Would 100% thorns mean reflecting 100% of damage?
I just got this rune, would also like to know!
From what I can tell, thorns are entirely based on incoming damage. So mobs which hardly do any damage will hardly take any from thorns. I believe this is based on final damage, so for it do a lot of damage, you have to take a lot as well. Damage % on damage taken is much better comparatively. It benefits from lifesteal and always does the same damage, no matter how much is incoming. It does not scale from damage increases like increase damage on damage taken however. I noticed this with the ring and crucible damage buffs.
Tested a bit. Got some archers on lumbermill and let them shoot at me.
Base stats:
Ring “Deal 20% Damage on Damage Taken” - 86 dmg.
Shield “15% plague damage on block” - 44 damage.
Shield “25% damage on block” - 67-68 damage.
37% thorns from chest armor - 11 dmg. 117% thorns (with 80% buff from rune) - 35-38 dmg (i guess rounding is involved). So it scales right.
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- Thorns are NOT affected by weapons in your hand. And shields. Any combination of them does not affect damage.
- Thorns are NOT affected by armor. You get more damage (form 20 to 50 with different armor), but archers still got 11 dmg (or 35-37 dmg with thorns buff)
- Rats hit you for 10 dmg, but they still got same Thorns dmg - 37.
- Some archers get more dmg - 48 from 117% thorns. it is stable too, no matter what
- Melee mobs that came with above archers has the same thorns damage as archers - 48 or 37.
So I GUESS thorns scale with lvl. I was lvl 30 at lvl 25 area. 37% from 30 lvl - is 11.1. And 117% from 30 - 35.1 dmg. And i fancy that lvl 25 mobs got 35 dmg from thorns (all of them, including rats) and 24 (or 26) lvl mobs get more damage.
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Ring “Deal 20% Damage on Damage Taken” - 86 dmg. Thats 20% from 430. To much for incoming damage. And too much for outgoing. My HP was about that mark - 460 with buffs. Maybe it is counted from HP but archer has some armor? Not tested, out of archers )
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Shield “15% plague damage on block” - 44 damage.
Shield “25% damage on block” - 64-65 damage. (should be 73dmg based on 15%=44dmg)
Lets imagine that archer has some resists. And phys res is a bit higher. And thats why we got 65 instead of 73. But where did that come from? We should have initial damage about 260-290 to have these numbers. Too much for archer damage. No tested.
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So, I did some of my own testing, initially also with a level 30 character. It seemed to me at the time that a value of 100% Thorns would deal 35 damage, but I also found that different enemies would not only reflect different types of damage, but also take different amounts based on their own defense values. Link → Thorns Damage Capped?
I found that the damage ranged from 27 to 47, depending on the enemy taking the reflected damage. I later tested a level 1 character and found that at 100% Thorns approximately 16.6 damage would be reflected. What I really found interesting was that when I changed to a world with a lower danger level on the same level 1 character wearing the same armor, the reflected damage dropped by over a third.
This implies that while character level plays a factor, the world’s danger level somehow plays in as well. It is also possible that the level of the gear with the thorns value might affect things, although that would require significantly more testing. Since I only have the resources I have the time to farm myself, it would be unreasonable for me to do all the testing myself.
Either way, Your Level is not the only factor. There is certainly more at play than meets the eye.
great idea,Damius. Hasnt come to my mind )
Lets try to aproximate. Rougthly.
I found that the damage ranged from 27 to 47,
I think that is bound to lvl of enemy some how. Either by lvl, or by some base defense for that lvl. I guess lvl 30 char will meet lvl 21-32 enemies. We have 30 base thorns (at 100%), which 27 at 32lvl enemies and 47 at lower enemies. Or visa versa. (will try to go to low lvl map with high lvl char to test).
level 1 character and found that at 100% Thorns approximately 16.6 damage
That is how formulas with base value behave. Lets say that base thorns damage is (15 + 0.5*chatlvl). We will get 15.5 at lvl 1, 16 at lvl 2, 25 at lvl 20 and 30 at lvl 30.
15.5 against lvl 2-3 mobs can equal 16.6
(will try to test on my lvl 20 char tonight, should get around 25 dmg per 100% thorns).
p.s. Do we have a way to see enemy lvl?
To clarify, I saw 27 damage when the damage type was either fire or plague (seen by the colored damage numbers in the videos in my linked post) and I saw 47 damage only against ranged enemies (who likely have lower physical defenses). The strength of the enemies did not seem to factor in much if at all, since the enemies dealt anywhere from 10 to 80 damage to me with each of their hits.
Another clarification, my level 1 character would deal approx 16.6 damage at 100% Thorns in the Danger Level 25 world, but 100% Thorns in the Danger Level 3 world was approx 12 reflected damage. That is a significant change in damage reflected when tested against the training dummy, which does the same damage to me in either case(implying the dummy did not level up). This is also not consistent with a formula like 15 + level/2. There is clearly something else affecting the Thorns value that is hidden from us.
When I find some time, I will take my level 1 character into some high danger level areas to get numbers for a variety of enemy types, presumably with different levels and defense values of their own. I’ll share that info here when I have it.
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We have 30 base thorns (at 100%), which 27 at 32lvl enemies and 47 at lower enemies. Or visa versa. (will try to go to low lvl map with high lvl char to test).
My lvl 30 char with 37 thorns does 6-7 damage in lvl 3 area. (instead of 11 at lvl 25 area). That means thorns deal less damage to low lvl targets. And more to targets with higher lvl.
Thisle ring (20% damage) deals 13 dmg for some reason (insted of 86 at lvl 25 area). Thats 65 initial damage)
15% plague damage on block - 11-12 dmg (from 80 dmg)
25% damage on block - 16 dmg (from 64 dmg, thats close to thisle ring)
Another clarification, my level 1 character would deal approx 16.6 damage at 100% Thorns in the Danger Level 25 world, but 100% Thorns in the Danger Level 3 world was approx 12 reflected damage.
So lets try this: (10 + 0.8*charlevel) * (charlevel-attackerlvl)%
You get more damage when your attacker is higher that you.
1 lvl char deals 10 dmg. +20% agains 3 lvl attacker and +66% against 25 lvl attacker.
(will try to test on my lvl 20 char tonight, should get around 25 dmg per 100% thorns).
Did that. Lvl 23 char with 80% thorns (from rune) deal from 22 to 28 damage (scales with area lvl). Its
It’s not exactly predicted 25 damage at 100% (it 27.5 to 35 ) but thats pretty close. \
And we can assume that thorns damage based on char lvl (about 100% thorns = 30 dmg at 30 lvl) and than scales with enemy lvl / def and with world difficulcy.
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