A Guide to Reactive Damage: Thorns, Thistle Ring, and Damage on Block

No reactive damage benefits from damage % increases like the fierce ring (damage % increased on damage taken).

Thorns

As much as I want thorns to be good, it’s just not in its current state.

It does not benefit from physical damage % increases.

Thorns damage will be the same type of damage as the damage taken. So for instance, getting hit by a plague attack would do plague thorn damage rather than physical.

It does benefit from armor penetration, but is part of the same enchantment group so both cannot be stacked.

Thorns damage does not depend on incoming damage amount, meaning thorns damage is unaffected by damage mitigation. Wearing cloth or wearing plate, thorns will do the same damage.

Thorns damage does trigger lifesteal.

Thorns damage does activate on block.

Thorns does not activate on being hit by plague clouds etc, unlike thistle ring which is activated by taking damage.

So here’s the really bad news. Every maxed thorns - 40% - is about 13 damage. The most thorns you can possibly have is 400%, which is 5 pieces (includes a shield) with mottled black pearl and low health. That means fully invested in thorns, the most damage it can do is about 130. To put that in perspective, maxed thistle ring, which does 25% damage, does base damage of 85, which is about 260% thorns. For what you have to invest, it’s just not worth it.

Thistle Ring

It does 25% damage maxed, which has no correlation to the damage of the weapon you are holding, and starts at about 85 damage.

It does benefit from physical damage % increases and armor penetration.

It can be triggered by any attack which does damage. Of special note, that includes attacks which remain on the ground. This will do damage to the enemy which activated them. So take echo knight for example. Standing in the blue flames he places on the ground will trigger thistle ring and do damage to him. You can purposely stay in these flames and let them stack, each flame triggering its own damage. If you can survive, say through a large barrier, this damage can add up quickly.

Thistle ring does trigger lifesteal.

Thistle ring does not activate on block.

Damage on Block

Damage on block does the same damage as thistle ring. So snake ring or max falstead shield, both having 25% damage on block, do 85 damage.

It does benefit from physical damage % increases and armor penetration.

Damage on block does activate lifesteal.

While thorns does activate on block, you are better off stacking armor penetration instead. It will result in more damage than thorns and will also increase damage from other sources.

You can use block on attacks which remain on the ground like thistle ring.

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Damage on block does not activate on ranged attacks. The damage on block gems do however. This bug is known and has been reported, so expect a fix in the future.

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I just tested Thistle ring with lifesteal and DOES trigger lifesteal. It doesn’t seem to trigger regainable health though. Thorns also seem to trigger lifesteal but an incredibly lower rate then what gear would indicate.

I also tested Thorns with Sinew with 25% lifesteal (GEM: +75% enchantement power on full focus) and gloves with healing increaed by 15% of current durability with 225 durability (GEM: +75% enchantement power on full focus) and Thorns DOES work with lifesteal but at a lower rate then normal.

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That’s strange since it work with Falstead’s Barricade

I retested using a barrier to make sure damage taken was not influencing my health bar and it is working with lifesteal. I think my health gain from lifesteal was less than the incoming damage when I initially tested, so I thought it was not working. Updated the guide. Thanks for the feedback.

Lifesteal seems to have some internal multiplier lowering its effectiveness even for normal attacks.

Falstead’s Barricade does not do damage on block with ranged attacks.

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IDK if this was mentioned but Thorns seems to deal the same damage type as the damage type of the damage recieved.

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This is true. I can add.

I think it only worked after you put on a deal damage on block gem on “falsteads barricade” but that was probably unintended :sweat_smile:

-Edit: i meant to say before together update, but might even have been before breach cant really remember..

damage on block for ranged attacks worked pre-together update. I think it not working on ranged attacks is unintentional right now.

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I remember it working before breach atleast :grin: