Grind is maybe not the right word, but something the player can see that they can track, so that they know how many respecs they have and how close they are to the next one.
Having a item drop that’s a % base off the environment or bosses that gives 1 respec is just boring and trying to farm that for another respec is not fun.
If I can visibly see how much I need to respec if I don’t have one already available it’s much more enjoyable as I have a goal and not just randomly killing things to try and hope for a % drop.
Respec worked okay in Elden Ring. I don’t have strong feelings one way or another about whether or not it belongs in NRFTW though. Depends on how long of a game it is, I suppose. If it takes me 100 hours to build & upgrade sacrament, I’m less likely to do that again. But I can bring alts into the same realm, so maybe it’s not a huge deal.
Swapping builds would still have a cost, even if respec existed. For example, all the upgrade items you’ve invested into your current weapons and armor. If you want to switch weapons/armor, you’d have to do that again. Impact of that is lessened somewhat if weapon & armor tiers are straight upgrades of previous tiers, though.
I do think stat requirements are way too steep. 42 of a stat for a tier 3 weapon hurts. Would prefer it if the system was closer to souls, where stat requirements to actually effectively wield the weapon are usually low-ish (minus some “unique” weapons, generally), but players are still encouraged to keep investing in that stat to improve damage via weapon scaling.
You can yell it into the mountains if you’d like, but that doesn’t make the argument stronger. Your perception of the game is yours only. And if you’ll actually read what has been written through the post, you’ll come to find there’s many different takes, so i suggest you come off your high horse there and start reading.
Since you like to throw the word “arpg”around so much let’s go through it a bit yeah?
In no rest for the wicked you have your classic rpg elements such as the character creation, attributes, itemization paired with a soul-like combat system, bosses and level progression. The “a” stands for action, by the way, which tends to be a bit different for this game.
Now I’m not sure what reality you live in, but as far as I can tell from this going forward, it’s is not your usual rpg, nor is it a real souls-like, it holds it own unique ground.
And on account of that people tend to explore different ideas, which, apparently you don’t seem to be acostumed to.
As far as the rest of your petty writing goes. I’m not “trying to say” anything more than what is written up there. Anything else is called your interpretation, in case you didn’t know.
I don’t want a game where I don’t know the build I am making from the beginning but I have to spend attributes from the beginning and I can’t change them later on so I just have to GUESS?
I don’t want to adapt to the meta, i want to adapt to the weapon I like the most. But the end result is the same. Sometimes I need different attributes.
I could talk to the wall as well, and it wouldnt mean that its stronger. However is is stronger and thats factual. If you cannot see it, well, thats on u pal. If one argument is: “suit 10% of playerbase and alienate 90% of playerbase” and other one is “suit 90% of playerbase and let 10% do self imposed rules of no respecs since they do not like their time” which do you think is a stronger argument for action? Oh boy, I wonder…
This is the sentiment that the majority of players will have.
They don’t want to have to play the game twice to understand what kind of build they want on their first character, and then have to play it again and again and again just because they found new things they want to try that don’t fit into the fixed attribute spend that they’ve already done.
It NEEDS respec, there is nothing anyone can say that will make that any less true, other than suggestions that would limit the player base, which we don’t want to do.
@IAmGrimbo@norabseven@Lolli42
Please for the love of god, read the article again, read the comments, not one soul (exaggerating, of course there are some) is talking about not having respec, there are numerous suggestions as to how it should be approached, nobody is trying to threaten you here, It’s a discussion based upon how the mechanic should be approached, not enitrely subdued to the point of no existence.
EDIT: but if you’re here for the sake of a make-pretend argument, I mean, sure, be my guest.
I’m glad you finally did, since you’re first response clearly played on a different premise. Anywho, neither you nor I can confirm or deny what the populus wants, neither do we know what is even good for the game eitherway. You can suspect, but that’s all you can do, so please don’t speak in meager absolutes, as it dosen’t constitue to anything constructive.
And please don’t try to play in an argument about what is common practice, this here was about trying to find something new, trying to find a way forward, not what is there by default.
I did it the first time as well. my last response is painting exactly the same picture as my first one.
Thats very untrue and a very intellectually dishonest statement. Everyone who joined game forums is less of a casual palyerbase than games average playerbase. Do not even bother fighting me on this premise, this is true for every game, and so is for this one. If you are getting such a pushback between somewhat of a more hardcores playerbase of the game what do you think would be the feedback of your average joe who spend last 4 hours fighting warrick and still did not kill him. Additionally, whats good for the game is having a satisfied playerbase.
I’m gonna salute you in the same incredibly petty way you’ve approached this conversation in the first place.
What this game needs is discourse, progress and pushing the limits. And before you even think I’m talking about myself here, don’t -.- I’m trying to find a solution, not saiyng I found it.
What the community dosen’t deserve is push-overs riding on their high horses, know-it-alls that chant “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” that are threatened by the mere chance of something stepping outside what is considered standard practice, it’s just sad honestly. What is worse that you cling to historic parametrics and branding them as gold medals, speaking in "we"s and condeming others by “paraphrasing” their arguments to a enough degraded down version where you can challenge them, it’s just ridiculously petty.
This could’ve gone in a way more contructive way, but sadly you just keep pushing, I’m not sure if you’re reality is threatend here, respectfully. But I hope you realize there’s no winner here, no one is trying to take over.
Yet another example of a person speaking in absolutes… Unless you have a straight up copy of an expert detalinig every single person, their playtime, and their preference, you’re doing nothing but masking your assumption as a “fact”
It’s not about what the player base wants. It’s about what the studio wants. And from what I have seen they expressed they want choices to matter. So taking that as a base we make suggestions here about how respecing can be implemented considering the vision. I do not agree with everything Bunny said but I think they understand the general vision of the developers.
All I read are assumptions and no real logical reasoning.
Respeccing is simply a QOL feature.
Restricting players too much with this and forcing them to play a certain way will drive people away sooner then have an actual impact on the game-play itself.
I don’t understand people who are so obsessed about restricting the player and feel the need to make lengthy posts about it. I doesn’t even impact you.
If you don’t want to respecc then don’t, simple. But let others do their own thing if you don’t mind of course, thank you very much.
Respecing is not QOL at all. You don’t know what QOL is if you are saying that. It is a system that depending on how it is implemented(or not implemented) can put none or a lot of weight on leveling up decision and can make the world feel more or less grounded. Why is it so hard to understand that some people like that?
This is like the Dark Souls difficulty debate. And just like that saying “just don’t use it if you don’t want it” is not a solution.
I didn’t see this post and I made a topic with the exact same title almost lol. I don’t want respec feature either. Ruins the soft class system for sure and re-playability. I thing there should be a potion that has a single skill respec and one with a 5 skill respec so you can tune your guys or you can save up mats make the pots and do a full respec with enough time.
Counter argument to “everyone will look and play the same meta class/stat/build”
Making you able to respec fairly freely you allow players to role play more and create a 4 man team for coop with a tank, archer, mage and assasin. Maybe your group has 3 people who like mages and one guy that likes rogues. With respec you allow players to venture off that build to create more fun, unique and role play situations in co-op while allowing them to revert to their preference when they go back to their own realm.
I roleplay heavily
I play a specific character and I want to use specific weapons with that character and with that character, the weapon I wanted dropped 40 hours into the game. This is in fact not a question of respeccing but of drop rates and gear accessibility. However it could always happen that another even more fitting weapon might drop later that suddenly requires dex and int instead of str and dex
Do you want me to literally remake the same character again so I can use a weapon I want to use?
I would be fine with no respec if weapons didn’t have requirements.
Personally I like being able to respec, it should just have an appropriate cost so that doing so isnt trivial. Path of Exile manages this by making each point repecced cost an orb of regret, the total cost to respec a character is high enough that in like 90% of cases you would still rather roll a new character than do it. I dont mind that or a full reset for a plague ichor or something. Just don’t make it like 1 silver respecs and we’re good.