[Hot take] I don't think I want respecing (at least not as we know it)

Wicked Feedback
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wonderful feedback people, both for and against! upvote this so the devs can see your input

Moon Studios please be careful when making the respecing system!

With respecing out of the game, you’re worried about adding more content for “classes” that feel underappreciated.

With respecing in the game, you’re worried about balancing whatever is the current “meta”.

For one, try to limit it to the early and (maybe) mid game, have people be able to respec, just not in the late game.

Perhaps have respecing enabled for x amount of levels, and then present players with a disclaimer that from here on out there’s no going back.

Or maybe just limit the respecing system to be a couple of points back and forth.

With multiplayer, having respecing all across the board has potential for everyone looking and playing whatever the current “meta will be”

Respecing absolutelty kills the “soft class” identity, commiting down a certain stat path has weight now. But with respecing, and the arpg elements where random items are dropping at every turn, we’ll be chasing the next best thing that drops at our doorstep with little to no thought, regardless of what stats we commited to before, because it won’t matter.

With no respecing you can incentivise players to help one another, enable trading, the community chest instantly increases in value, as you might be getting items you can give to your fellow players, connect with friends to trade items etc., instead of selfishly hoarding whatever good item drops, because you know you might just simply respec after you feel like it.

EDIT: We’ve had too many instant gratification systems, too many panic buttons and hand-holding coping mechanisms in the game industry.
The “Afk Arena” systems are becoming a pandemic.

I miss the thrill of discovery the grind behind trial and error. It holds so much more value for the things the game already has, without even having to introduce anything to it. That’s the magic behind actually investing time, trying things on your own, being acutally punished for your mistakes, and being recognized for your success by the results you can show.

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its literally just necessary because of the ridiculous gatekeeping of weapons
if they didnt have those requirements and would drop more often so you could decide earlier which weapons and attributes you are going for none would have to ask for it
there isnt much to respec anyways

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Have you even read past the title?

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yea you’re not getting the point tho
how in the hell am i supposed to know what stats i will need to have for the first time a specific weapon i like will drop 50 hours after starting the game?
if we had clear rules from the beginning:
"heres a sword: str
heres a dagger: dex
heres a bow: dex
heres a polearm: str, dex
heres a hammer str, faith
heres a wand: int
heres a…
you get it? there’s too much and it isn’t even communicated right away you get it bit by bit while leveling up and just trying to adapt to what you have found for now.

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Great point OP and I totally agree. I hate the “meta” plague that came with easy internet access. Nobody thinks for themselves and it kills build innovation and personality. Unfitting for a role-playing-game.

Respec was only a problem for me when I had no knowledge of the game. Fearing I would waste my points. However, now on my second character, which is 20+ already, I actually don’t want the respec option to exist. I think it’s great to commit to a build or reroll a new toon. That way we also avoid people who just abuse leveling strategies gear-wise and respec later. We also promote trading/sharing in MP when you can’t wield every gear piece that drops yourself. Which is healthy for a MP game.

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This is an offline game with a future co-op for 4 people. What difference does it make to you who runs in what build, if you run with friends as 4?
Play what u want…

We’re not playing for a cow to worry about meta:)

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Respec should work only on 2 stats that you need to swap.

For example, if you went full STR for your current weapon but suddenly you found a weapon that has STR and INT and you wanna try it out, then you can swap and reroll STR in favour of STR + INT, etc.

If you went DEX + FAITH, and wanna swap to other solo/combo stat, you’ll be able to.

It’s so that you just cant mindlessly reroll ALL and completely change your build. Some choiced must stay semi-permanent.

However, the respect should also come with a rollback, just in case you are not satisfied with the result.

The posibility to respec should be gated by weekly quests or any other timed method (so not to abuse it freely).

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It’s a game design decision they have to make. I believe Diablo 2 was better pre-respec, also as a solo experience imo. Rerolling a new character used to be a normal thing and it offers great replayability and rewards knowledge.

Respec feeds into the demand for instant gratification.

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In any case, they are already working on this system.
There is already a lot of long and long farming in the game. If this is exactly what you need, you can create a new character every day. I don’t want to, I have enough to do as it is. And if I want to try something new, I want to have the opportunity to do so.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. If you don’t like it, don’t use it.
Not everyone is in the game 24/7 to see and trying everything.

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I also think allowing infinite complete respeccs is a bad idea.

In addition to the points seen here so far, it also reduces replayability of the game, because you dont need to lvl up another character to play a different ‘class’. Most Hack’n Slay ARPG’s have a hard class system to encourage players to start over with new characters, so respeccing doesnt have that big effect when implemented. I like NRFTW’s take to build ‘your own class’ approach, but that will only be fun in the long run, if you have some kind of commitment towards your envisioned class

My solution would be to only be able to respecc the last few point spend (like last 15 for example) This way you get a bit of wiggle room and can fix some recent ‘mistakes’ when putting point into stats into attributes you don’t want anymore.

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And that’s fine but my opinion on what’s good for the game is different. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I haven’t seen anyone asking for endless, easily accessible respec. You can make a hard-to-find ingredient that will allow you to reset.
Like clay before hotfix 4 xD

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So what you’re saying is no respec then? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: or what about bear claws :sweat_smile:

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if basically respec assumes a free change of characteristics, then I agree that this can not be done. Although I don’t see anything wrong with this either. This is, first of all, an arpg, in any modern arpg, everything can be remade.

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that they should not be easy is a non-starter, that wasn’t even brought up in my post. My emphasis was on a complete reset of all attributes that players can get as much as they want (as long as they farm for it). even if i only get 1 insert respecc item here every 500 mobs, it still discourages you from creating a second character, because you could just respecc the one you have. and if you nerf the drop chances so hard that creating a new character is faster than farming, then you dont need a respecc at all.

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If being able to respec is not an option it will drive off players. It needs a full respec option, there is no way around it.

Following the meta will happen regardless of respec or not. What will happen is that people will google “can i respec” and if it comes to “NO” they will follow a guide. Either way people who want to will always follow a guide, with or without respec.

Replaying the game can be incentivised by other means not just making a new character. Like adding in more resources that are finite to a realm like ichor, this will force a replay if people want to farm this.

Without respec it will just hamstring the playerbase into either not playing or following guides because many people don’t have the time or patience to replay for experimentation or because of bad decisions.

It needs a full respec, just add in other means of making the player replay the game from start again.

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why not? Still cant understood. I hate seasons in d4-poe-le, because they force you to create a character from 0. I don’t like it.

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Since when is this a topic about seasons? Thats an entirely different feature

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i hate it)))

No, not about seasons. This is like an example of starting from 0.
It’s about being able to remake a build, which many are against, without starting a new character.
I also don’t think your decision to reset the conditional last 15 points is correct.

As an example, I upgraded my agility to 42. But suddenly I found daggers to 26/26 and that’s it. I don’t have the points to wear these daggers. Start over?

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It’s a design decision, maybe it isn’t best to give the player everything they want. There has to be meaningful rules and boundaries.

Infinite inventory space and stat respec would be like having cheat mode on. Every item that’s slightly better would be an instant opgrade. They would have to nerf drops then and having a big weapon type pool makes that even harder. There exist weapon type versions for almost every stat combination and when you find one you can use, it’s almost always usable. You can’t say that for a lot of rpg games. Other games often suffers from the problem that all item drops can be used but are compete and utter crap.

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