Classless Build Flavor Design Feedback

Hello wonderful Wicked Devs and community. I have been enjoying this wonderful game, interacting and playing with the systems, discussing with the community and ruminating on my thoughts. With Thomas Mahler’s tweet earlier today (4/26), I think now is a good time to finally put some of my thoughts to post.

Firstly, I will make it clear what I understand is the Developer’s intended design: Systems that support classless characters for maximum freedom with as little restriction as possible to come up with crazy combinations.

The systems that contribute to your character build:

  • Stats/Attributes
  • Equipment enchantments/quality
  • Runes on weapons
  • Sockets on weapons and equipment

Okay, let’s break it down one at a time:

Stats/Attributes

I love having control to distribute my stats on level up as I like. Str, Dex, Int, and Fth currently only determine weapons and shields that you can wield and restrict some gear. They will also scale damage with the attribute. As a baseline, I think this is fine, but I would like these attributes to have more meaningful interaction with the other systems of the build while still keeping the design intent of build freedom. The other attributes have benefits that will be prioritized by players depending on what they are looking for in their build. The stats themselves communicate an expected archetype and I believe that they can be given effects that support that expectation while still supporting player freedom. I don’t believe runes or sockets should be locked to any one attribute for scaling, however I believe there is potential for them to have different effects depending on the attributes that were chosen. Consider that sockets have a different effect depending on what type of equipment they are being socketed into.


Equipment Enchantment/Quality

Currently equipment drops rely on RNG. This is true for the loot dropped, the base items stats like weight, damage, stam cost, focus gain, etc. the item having an enchantment, what quality of enchantment, the affixes of the enchantments, and the quality of the affixes of those enchantments.

Early in my first playthrough it seemed to me that I would inititially rely on drops, then when I had more crafting recipes, materials, and money I could craft multiples of items I like or buy them to then rely on the enchantments in town to gamble for the enchantments for my build. I felt that as the game continued I would obtain more runes, more socketables, as well as higher quality of the early socketables. Unlocking these would then make it that customizing my preferred common item would result in forging my preferred weapon, but that this extends to armor and shields as well–and this was very exciting for me!

Now the game only has the initial socketables which are all great, and the naming of the gems suggest there are higher quality versions of them coming later in the game. However, we do not have the ability to have more control over the types of enchantment affixes we want on our equipment beyond rolling and rerolling to hope for the gear we want. I think there is too much RNG in this regard currently and not enough control in how I can shape my equipment. This is a criticism I have of current ARPGs including Diablo III and Diablo IV and seems to be a sticking point with many other players as well.

Primarily, I think that if I am given more control over the enchantments for my equipment, this specifically would feel more fulfilling, while still having the fun of RNG. I enjoyed the Horadric cube of Diablo II for this reason, that I still had to hunt down materials, but satisfying a recipe would mitigate the randomization and work towards the type of equipment complimentary to my build. Still RNG, but more feeling of control. Items like enchanting scrolls for the affixes could be dropped in the game that can be affixed, that roll for quality of the stat could be a consideration. Diamond gems already have a risk of positive/negative effect when socketed. There can be cursed scrolls that offer the more powerful affixes, but with the unknown curse effect looming.

Crafting materials could have better tiers of quality that contribute to better rolls of the crafted gear. Still have to hunt for these and they would be rarer than the lower tier, or to simplify, when crafting we can have the option for more difficult recipes requiring more materials, but offering better rolls or more effects for the gear being crafted.


Shields

My primary note on shields is that I want runes and gem sockets on them as well. My first shield drop in the game was a Fth shield and I immediately wondered if it would have an aura effect reminiscent of Paladins from Diablo II. There is many possibilities of utility to add to shields that don’t have to be limited to a Pally archetype. Heal auras, resistance buffs, thorns aura, def aura, focus aura, stam aura, elemental debuffs/effects auras that lean into creating a character like a drowned mariner. Flaming shield charges. I imagine these kinds of things have been discussed and would not be surprised if they are coming and just not in the game yet. But please, I wanted to ensure it was out there. This is wanted!


Runes on Weapons

Restating what I already mentioned above that I would like these to somehow interplay with my character’s stat choices. I am curious on the restrictions of runes simply because of Mahler’s tweet earlier. It is stated that runes were not wanted to be locked with affix scaling as it would restrict them to certain builds. I agree with this, however runes are restricted to certain weapons after they have been extracted. I am curious if this is a balance issue or if there are just limitations to allowing the runes on all weapons. If possible, to realize the design intentions stated by the team to allow maximum creativity, I would like as many rune effects available to every weapon as possible.

Shields. Gimme my shield love.


Sockets on Weapons and Equipment

So far I am very happy with how this system works and just tie in to what I have already said above. Additional sockets in the game that are used to affix our items would make the crafting and customization of our characters more streamlined. 4 sockets allows for 4 enchant affixes. Current available sockets already do similar effects to some affixes. Limitations are reasonable, like only 1 lightning gem. Affix sockets could be categorized for balance in this way.

I am sure the tiers of socket quality are coming considering the word ‘chipped’ in the gem names.

And shields. I see you Devs. I appreciate you. I know you want to do it.

Take care! I’d love to hear what you all think. See you all on the forums, on Discord, and on Sacra :slight_smile:

And remember, “Maybe it’s time you trade in that silly outfit for a uniform!”

2 Likes

Generally I have been on the fence about this. Limiting the main attributes to only gatekeeping what weapons may be equipped seemed reasonable to me to maintain the “classless” system they have a vision for. While I’m not completely off this train of thought yet, I do see merit to it.

As an example, if I wanted to be a “Spell-Rogue” or a Spellblade, instinct would say pick DEX as my main attribute, with INT being the secondary choice. I’m still able to do that and not feel like I am missing out.

However, if I pursued a Cleric or Paladin, generally these two in RPGs favor STR and some spellcasting modifier. That being said, instinct would say INT as the spellcasting modifier but this game also gives us FTH. I wouldn’t want to give up spellcasting by taking FTH, if this is how the attribute bonuses worked.

Nonetheless, there is definite potential in exploring this while preserving a core pillar of their build vision: classless.

I agree to all of this. Every ARPG has the nature of RNG to the items, with the caveat that we are given a varying amount of control over how much RNG is present. I’m inclined to believe we’ll get this in the future with more vendor upgrades but it doesn’t hurt to bring up in advance.

I also think we need improved enchantments. I was never one to argue better affixes in Diablo IV, mostly because I’m too nervous to discuss that online, but with Wicked I can see the current affixes are missing something but there’s a great base for them.

Yes. :slight_smile:
In all seriousness, I love shields. You give me Crusader, Paladin, Sentinel, whatever, you bet I will want a damn shield. I love the mixture of tank and support and shields usually accomplish that in games. Giving shields some passive bonus like auras from Diablo II would be such a dream and would definitely be a fantasy fulfiller. Two-handed weapons exchange defense for a lot of offense, so why can’t see exchange that offense for more defense and/or utility?

I don’t know exactly how to accomplish Runes being affected by stats for that interplay. Sadly this isn’t an area I have ideas on.

I’m mixed on sockets since Commons/Whites are meant to be the most customizable. Ultimately, Rares/Blues and Purples/Plagued will be better in power so maybe it may not hurt to give gems a little more oomph in the power or effects they provide.


You put a good amount of effort into this post! Good stuff here.

if you could at least stack similar gems on an item, it would be more desirable to use white items.

What do you think about this post?

I’ll give it a read and share thoughts on the post!