A lot to unpack here. I’m going to discuss this bit-by-bit and make it more digestible.
I think it’s safe to say we both agree this enchantment is highly problematic. The amount of power it has granted has more than trivialized enemies.
Again, I wholeheartedly agree here in trying to incentivize melee gameplay. I drafted up some enchantments in another post that prefers when you chain together runes and normal attacks. At the end of the day, my goal is to limit how much a player can trivialize combat. It’s unavoidable to a degree because of the nature of ARPGs but it can be minimized.
Yes, Focus on Damage Dealt is far too problematic and cannot exist in its current form. There are more engaging ways to make this work. I know ARPGs are straightforward with stats like these but we have a different sandbox entirely, we can do better. They’ve also decided to allow Stamina attacks with bows as a testing ground for pure Ranger playstyles and I think that’s a good start.
Making ranged runes be significantly stronger but at a higher cost I think works for me. I will say, many enemies have ways to close the gap so I may be ovethinking how much ranged will trivialize this game compared to others. Ideally they also fix how much we benefit from the early points in stats since the scaling is too generous.
A lot of the issues currently is, thankfully, numbers tuning. The rings giving too much leeway on Focus can be resolved by reducing the numbers so you really have to invest in it.
Edit: I swear I hit reply on posts but I don’t see it actually reply to the person.
I would say, especially in a Souls Like game, that if ranged weapon have a balance issue, as a general rule I would tweak the AIs first, not the player skills or attributes.
At a high level we all know how playing a ranged weapon should feel like and I don’t think that there is that much to reinvent here.
And if the challenge is not there it’s not that you have not enough tools. Its more because the AI doesn’t have the answers to counter you.
Maybe they will add in harder content and monsters in game. It seems like there will be multiple difficulty’s to the crucible. So right now you just blast content and are able to kill shit fast once you get some good runes and what not. And maybe focus builds could be nurfed a bit or they can buff stamina and other stats with different affixes.
But I’m sure it just comes down to difficulty if there were monsters that were harder to kill and with different shield mechanics. Or even attacks that can drain focus. Vampire for health or focus drain.
There’s just tweaking that needs to be done I can feel it too seems like a balance thing and I’m sure they’ll figure it out
Let me just note here that nerfing rune spam and forcing archers/mages into melee are two different issues.
IMHO Rune spam is a genuine problem because it circumvents most of the combat mechanics.
Archers being forced into melee is now tied into focus, but doesn’t have to be. IIRC developers themselves said that normal stamina base attack for bows might be coming. If that then also circumvents most of the combat mechanics is another debate. Let’s keep this thread for the rune spam issue first.
I’m sorry to disappoint but this game is a mixture of world exploration that Moon is known for, but also the repetitive content from ARPGs. The Crucible will be expanded upon in the future, it’s Thomas’s ambitious vision to have it styled after Hades.
totally agree. there are still mages in this discussion but i think it should be a more intentional build direction being able to “spam” runes and all other builds should only be able to use them occasionally. maybe even parry shouldn’t automatically fill up your whole bar.
Sounds to me like the best compromise possible that could be made here.
At equivalent Level and Gear Level:
If you enjoy playing with Basic Attacks only, you can do it.
If you enjoy playing with Runes only, you can do it.
If you enjoy playing with both, you can do it.
But in no case the overall damage output exceeds outrageously the other options.
And in no case the overall damage output is deceptively lower than the other options.
yea. f.e. i often don’t even think about my runes with my heavy melee char. partially because i can’t really choose which i am using right now so i get bored of them. i just use my basic moveset most of the time.
At the same level of damage Attribute investment a character using an INT Staff has the same amount of health as a melee character using a Greatsword, while having more available weight to stack heavy armour because their weapon is lighter. The assumption may have been that casters would invest more of their Attributes into Focus, but since Focus attacks are currently also the primary way of dealing damage in melee this requirement is no different for melee characters. As previously mentioned you can have 4x your starting Focus for only 6 Attribute points and 2 rings, so there is no reason for a caster using an INT Staff to have any less health or armour than a melee character using a Great Sword.
In fact, Blink enables you to play at high weight while still having access to the best dodge in game, making it even more practical to run maximum weight armour on a caster as it is on melee. You’re describing a fantasy of what you assume a character should be, not the reality of the videogame.
or make the basic attack/heavy attack a main force while the runeskill have long cooldow and is a strong attack to use occasionally. that way you dont have a build that work with only runeskills and outskills everything, its there only for some extra like parrying to get critical hit
I see your point but I also think the crucible is just supposed to be like a tiny part of the game. And unfortunately this is the symptom of early access.
There should be like 5x the areas to explore and other end game things to do they just aren’t here yet. And a lot more bosses.
I’m for “Play whatever the way you want to play!” and the hint @Lolli42 came with which lead to the solution I was thinking, to me, addresses all the balance issues you can think of.
I said it earlier, but differently, in this post, but, this game has an identity crisis and the clarity of its vision is nowhere close to be made.
That is why you end up with so much dissonances in its progression systems and its overall gameplay.
It needs a clear core philosophy and, more important, needs to stick to it.
Most of the solutions you guys are coming with, and I appreciate them, are there to fix the symptoms, but there is an underlying disease, holding the game to feel even throughout the entire experience.
What they should do now is to take a deep breath.
Stop these daily mini-tweak updates. It just gets things worst …
Except for performance issues, critical progression issues and, maybe, quality of life features.
Read what we all think about the game at its current stage.
Make decisions about what is relevant based on their initial vision.
Come up in a month or so with a more solid update and direction.
And don’t get me wrong: I LOVE THIS GAME!!!
All the criticism I have is just passion for it.
to be fair, game designers and programmers are not all connected and can’t work independently. they can definitely still work on technical issues and simultaniously work out concepts for a better design.
