Poll Results
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Discussion
For people who can’t see it:
So let’s give our thoughts!
For me, depth is always good. I love Owlcat’s CRPGs and their complex systems.
What a talent tree provides to me is a sense of progression. I have something to look forward to reaching. This also allows me to tinker more with my build. It also allows for more build diversity, and gives us more a sense of a ‘‘class’’.
I feel like I am more interacting with the game and systems that you guys made, I always like that feeling. You are more conscious of your build and about what talents to chose. And the character that you end up with feels like it is more your ‘‘own’’ character.
I personally didn’t like how limiting attributes felt. Especially not being able to wield certain greatswords when I have invested into Strength or Strength/Faith.
I think overall this is a very good change, so thank you KevinJordanFail 
I still wanna see the Ichor System reworked though 
Maybe the ichor system can even further interact with the talent tree, unlocking very powerful talents or something. I think that is an idea worth exploring.
I believe that the introduction of a talent tree could add a new dimension to the game, allowing players to further customize their abilities and playstyle. However, it’s important that this system is balanced and offers meaningful choices for players, so that everyone can find a path that suits their playstyle.
On the other hand, however, in the post he talks about replacing the stat system with this talent tree, and I have mixed feelings about that. At the moment, I’m not particularly fond of how the stats system works, and I believe it needs to be almost completely overhauled.
However, I would prefer it to remain in place, with the talent tree complementing the stat distribution
Alternatively, maybe the ichor system can give us a handful of additional talent points and they can let us increase inventory size with gold instead 
I’m pretty happy with any proposed change to the attribute system, a lot of people have been discussing changes at length in other posts to give the stats a better identity and tossing the system out all-together in favor of a talent tree sounds interesting. Lots of other games with the attribute system have gear interact with the stats in some way and, outside of the weapon scaling, we don’t really have that in Wicked so it doesn’t seem like we’re losing much by swapping it out for a talent tree. It’d be nice if we could see a draft of talents they’d be considering. Are we talking charge attacks deal 10% more damage and your stamina is increased 5% or gameplay defining stuff like plate armor proficiency and unlocked dash attack? Maybe a mix of both? A selection of classes/subclasses?
Sounds interesting/exciting, looking forward to it. Right now all of us are dumping a bunch of points into our chosen weapon’s scaling stats which isn’t very engaging to build around, imo. It also contrasts heavily with affixes often giving powerful and unique effects like enabling health/focus regen or giving us back health and stamina on-hit. Right now the equipment is way more interesting than the level-up/attribute system.
I think this is a situation where the ‘souslike’ and ARPG systems differ and they need to either choose one of the systems or actively change how these systems work or interact with one another.
The stat system is not ideal at the moment. It feels too simplistic and with it being used for the weapon requirements it is too constricting. A perk or talent tree will lead to meta building and although not bad not what I would like in the game. If they could make the two systems work off one another that might be more interesting and would solve a lot of the concerns people have raised.
It of course depends on the talents though really.
I want craftable leather bags, so I actually use leather for something (plate user)
The way I’m seeing this system in my head is like Titan Quest. But, with no classes, no active skills, just all upgradable passives thrown together. And as you level up you level those talents into the next passive. They could also decide to keep the attribute system and make certain talents scale with attributes. Similar to how Titan Quest requires you to invest into the class to unlock skills. We have to invest into attributes to unlock skills.
I do hope plague ichor becomes more than just talent points, but, maybe something like you can only use plague ichor to invest into certain talents. And further investment requires more plague ichor. So it would work like ‘‘special’’ talent points in a way.
Sorry if what I typed seems chaotic, I’m just very excited
I think proficiency of armour and weapons is a good idea. Maybe a base dagger, swords and so on proficiency and then specialisations? We seem to all agree that we need to move towards being able to use any weapons so this might be a way to get more freedom to use them.
I have only played 30hrs or so how prolific is ichor? I know there are mini bosses around that drop it but do you end up with that much? Is it available from drops in the crucible?
My only concern is the ability to farm for it and thereby become overpowered and that would increase the feeling that we lost what the game felt like in the beginning.
A change to stat system would be welcome, cause so far each of my chars have pretty much same stat allocation (except for weapon requirements). And I went for diverse weaps, armor and playstyles.
You can farm it pretty easily yeah. If you make a new realm and just defeat Warrick and go up the Rookery and watch the cutscene.
Which is an issue in it’s on right.
But, I’d say, yeah it is probably to readily available currently.
If they lock the ‘‘Ichor Talents’’ too higher levels it solves the issue of becoming to strong too fast. But once you reach the talent you do become a lot stronger, since you would, hypothetically, be able to dump all Ichor into it.
Unless it is a single investment relative to the realm. They need to rethink Ichor regardless I think.
I’m also pretty excited, I don’t have many complaints about the core gameplay but the stat identity in particular seemed lackluster. Honestly I’m more excited that the devs acknowledged that than anything else, right now any change to the system is good change imo.
It’s tough to say for certain whether the talent tree is actually going to be better than the attribute system without some examples though, right now I’m inclined to agree with Garrieff and Patren. I don’t really want to be forced into a talent tree meta and I think a safer bet would be to overlay the talent tree with the current attribute system instead of tossing out the attributes entirely.
Personally I’d like the weapon scaling attributes (strength, dexterity, faith, intelligence) to have additional functionality beyond increasing the damage of their weapon niches. I’d also like us to be able to interact with elemental damage in some way, giving us a way to make a lightning or fire themed character for example. The proposed talent tree could be a way to do that, locking weapon/armor proficiencies behind talents could be a way to ensure every build has access to any weapon or armor type that it wants so we get more build identity and variety without sacrificing freedom. There could also be talents that increase the damage and introduce side effects of elemental damage, a talent that increases fire damage and causes enemies who die from it to explode, dealing AoE damage in the process could be one example.
Toss in a way to adjust weapon scaling at the forge and we should have pretty much unprecedented build variety with a stat system for generic increases and a talent tree for more impactful character growth.
Regardless of what they choose to do I think there’s plenty of possibilities.
I figured this was the case as I hadn’t played long and I did receive a fair amount as it is.
I never even think about farming other realms (to be fair I never really think about farming in general which is why food was a bugbear of mine initially until I had it overflowing my already bulging chests!).
There would need to be a control on it for balance, although people play in different ways I suppose.
I never play a mage/caster type character (although I am a mage main in general in D&D and so on) as they always seem to be lacklustre and require so much more management (mana and so on). If the right talents were there it might make we try that.
I think we interacted in the discussion around weapons and having stats do more for them in general. Talents could add to that with a talent that allows dex to add poise damage or int to add to damage. I think there was the idea around affixes doing that but traits could fulfil that role.
Yeah, I didn’t think about that and that’d definitely be cool to see. The problem I saw with additional affixes was that it dilutes the affix pool and locks the gear for people’s builds behind even more RNG but the talent tree bypasses that problem nicely.
Agreed. I love how open they are in their communication. For me, they are really building up their reputation this way.
Overall, I am very curious to see where they take it.
I can see attributes and talents working together quite well also.
Agreed, I really want more build identity.
If you want, you could give this topic a read. I think you’d enjoy it, it basically adds feats similar to basic talents. So like fire inspired talents or mace specific stuff.
D&D Feat Style System To Replace the Current Ichor Inventory Expansion System
The RNG with weapons is ridiculous in my opinion (I know it is a popular way to keep people playing and many people like farming gear but I have never got exactly what I wanted).
Again maybe a crafting type talent that made you able to direct the RNG towards gear you would like with affixes you want.
I was thinking it would be cool to have the different vendors interact with each other in some ways (off topic sorry). Have them enchant and make a weapon for you at the same time and through upgrades to their store or talents create meaningful weapons and armour that lean towards your build.
I love that idea, a way to improve crafting and the related RNG sounds fantastic. Maybe a kind of “talent tree” but through the current city upgrade system? Once you max a vendor you can help them specialize in some way, giving you greater control over crafting/enchanting associated item types. That would give us some more city/realm progression, having a character select crafting-related talents from their level up options over stat/damage options is something I think I’m opposed to but is also kind of interesting. It would mean you’d likely have an alternate character dedicated to crafting, which I’m not really sure fits with the game but people in the MMO crowd seem to like having multiple characters and dedicated crafters.
Some way to increase the efficacy of crafting definitely sounds pretty sweet though.
Would be nice, as just putting points into attr is a bit “been there, done that”.
It’s been a while since I last played the Oris, but the solution there was nice.
I’m used to playing Grim dawn for my arpg (and minmaxing) needs, and the mix of classes and star signs there is nice, though pure talent tree is more POE. Could have a dual system; spend points in attr to get (somewhat attr restricted) points for talent tree?
I’ll be happy with anything more complex than current 
Maybe i am a bit biased from playing the Hades II EA, but i really like their form of a talent tree.
Base idea for how it could work in wicked:
The perfect attribute system:
A talent tree, but there are “dex talents”, “int talents” etc. Whichever talent you pick, the corresponding attribute gets raised a certain number of points (could differ per talent). Then you could still have attribute checks and attribute scaling.
