Personally, I’d probably stick with a rune riposte. I know it’s a personal thing, of course. I just don’t care which button I press to get a riposte. I’d also press the jump button if there was one. But only having one attack in the game that uses focus will confuse new players in particular, who never know where their focus is. And players who want to keep their focus on purpose could accidentally burn their focus if they just attack after a parry.
When stunning the target and giving you an insane amount of focus to perform ANY rune attack isn’t enough.
People asking for this are ironically those who miss 9/10 parries. So when they finally land one, they need the game to celebrate it.
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that is a bold assumption. i am actually good at parrying, i just never use it because it does not feel worth it to me! and i am obviously not alone with that feeling.
landing a parry no matter if u land 1, 10 or all of them should feel equally rewarding for every player, for those who use runes and for those who run pure melee builds. adding the option to have a finisher does not take your rune attack away from you.
i just think a rune i can use at any given time is a real riposte. i can also use the exact same rune without parrying. so where is my actual motivation to parry besides a insta filled bar and a 2 sec stagger?
Again, how is it not worth to stagger your target and perform ANY rune attack of your choice for free?
I mean you say you don’t play around runes but what you’re essentially asking for is a special rune attack that can only be performed after a successful parry. It’s a redundancy, but if it makes you happy sure, why not. I’m not against it per se, I just don’t see the problem with the current system.
i don’t want a rune attack. i want a simple melee counter, like a backstab but from the front. thats not rocket science 
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Well then perhaps we could have a special riposte that uses a rune slot so it isn’t accidentally activated, but still has a cool locked in i-frame animation. The animations are one of the coolest parts of this game, the team really knows what they’re doing in this department.
Also, for new players that don’t know where their focus bar is, I am sure they won’t be complaining when they use a little focus to perform a badass execution style animation.
I do agree that new players may not realize they have other options, I didn’t even know I was getting that much focus on parries until I saw people talk about it in this thread and tested it in game, so getting that info to new players via tutorial or something should be improved. That’s a seperate issue though.
If the worry is that new players won’t branch out with other options following a parry, then the suggestion from my first paragraph could work. However, i don’t really see that happening. I know for me, i would do it sometimes, and sometimes in bigger fights i would prioritze dodges and rune attacks.
I would also prefer a simple riposte like in Dark Souls, but I know that Moon put a lot of effort into their rune/focus system and that players enjoy it, so asking for a riposte through a rune is only superficially redundant, but rather a compromise that should help Moon balance it should they decide to include it in the game.
How is it not worth to stagger your target and perform ANY rune attack of your choice for free?
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It’s not any rune attack. At least when I played with more rune attacks last year, I think there were some that cost more than 100 focus. (I don’t know if that’s still the case today.) Also, many runes are tied to weapon types, so I have to play a specific weapon type to use a specific rune. What if I don’t want to?
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It’s not free. I have to spend focus, even if I got it through parrying.
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Even if I could use every rune for free, what if I simply don’t want to because I personally don’t enjoy it?
Personally, I would simply enjoy a riposte more, and I’m obviously not the only one. Not everyone has to understand that, but I don’t have to be against it just for the sake of being against it.
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Yeah … that sounds oddly sexual.
We can already hit them from the back, I want to hit them from the front too… I want to see their face when I do it… 
Yea I agree. I guess my thing is, if I can run around and backstab them anyways, what does an actual riposte from the front hurt? What is that taking away from players?
I think some people worry that it’s too OP. Some people think that they have to min/max and do whatever gets the best result.. but that’s just not true. Mage build comet azur was very broken in Elden Ring. Did everyone do that though? No, people played the way they wanted to.
Either way, this argument still falls flat since you can run around and backstab after a parry anyways. So I say, if we can backstab them, we should be able to do a cool riposte from the front.
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exactly what i said in all of the 42069 discussions about this. it would only add options. who does that actually hurt?
@Chemile0n @Yoke88
Should riposte be off parry or block (like ER) tho? Shields got buffed this patch and they still feel meh. Probably cause of my parry bias but anywho…
If a true riposte was added and it paired with shield to help give them more identity and purpose for people obviously avoiding parry.
Thought being. Parry exist, and is strong already. Giving 100 focus on top of the gear affixes it already feels like a playstyle that’s comfy to play around. Furthermore you’re not excluded from parrying with any shield category.
Block on the other hand is easier to pull off and therefore the rewards for doing it are lesser. Don’t get me wrong you can do stuff with damage taken and block and that’s all well n good. But if the riposte was a an animation, not unlike backstab (but not the same damage, that’d just be silly on block) where when enemies recoil you got a “riposte” attack.
That way you can riposte trash mobs with lesser shields but if you invest into a meaty build where you want to be on brand for being tough and slow, etc.. that build could still have a bit more agency in a fight.
but everyone can block, just hold up your shield all the time. i do not think that “deserves” a ripost.
but if u talk about perfect block just when the attack hits like in monster hunter, then i could really get behind that. even tho in games i know that do that, u do not get a ripost, but u would get an attack buff (could be with “perfect block” enchant affixes), or the enemy builds stagger/stun bar, and after a few perfect blocks (not just 1) u would get the same as with parries, a stagger and the chance to counter. that could work and improve combat variety imo.
we also have a discussion about counter attacks here: Counter Hit Mechanics Would Improve Combat
which basically is related, just that we do not talk about perfect block, rather than a perfect sword attack counter.
i could get behind all those ideas, because they do only add to variety and depth and hurt nobody. maybe even some of the “runes are riposts” people might actually enjoy their new options.
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Yeah just a thought. To me the rune is the riposte but that’s just my take. Thought being it would be a weaker backstab because everyone has access to shields but also if the numbers on shields are balanced it could add a lot of agency to beefcakes that build around block without being also as powerful on builds using a light shield for example.
The counter hit mechanics I’m 100% against. It’s proposed by the same gamer foaming at the mouth that the game is too easy cause club go bonk and enemy stops moving. The idea of having the exact same mechanic but tied to some tangle of “counter” weapons just sounds silly to me.
I could be wrong but imo it doesn’t serve any purpose aside from diluting the gameplay. Not to mention it completely circumvents the logic behind poise and super or hyper armor…
edit:
@BlackWaterPirate and that’s not a knock on you or anything. it just doesn’t make any sense for Wicked’s combat to me. Luckily I’m nobody so, carry on.
Hey genius, clubs and swords micro stagger the enemy no matter when you hit them during their attack animation. You can just button mash any enemy to death and they won’t even get to swing.
Counter-hit is a frame perfect interaction, on par in execution with parrying. Guess you never played a fighting game.
I have, fighting games paid for all[nah not all but a good bit 
my beer money in college cause locals are childs play. My point stands I think it’s a shit mechanic for the game and that’s my opinion and all I have to add to the discussion 
i would implement that differently, like in fencing when i use your rapier to disarm the enemy etc.
in no way should that break hyper armor attacks etc. its more of a interrupt attacks. it would also be logical. if 2 sword fighters hits their swords mid air, why should any of those attack get through, it would rather end in a weapon clash and maybe build stagger meter etc. or for special weapons which are totally underrated right now like rapiers or daggers it could give disarm.
imo that would not dilute gameplay, but improve on it, make specific weapon types more strategic etc.
if done right of course, but the basic idea has potential.
also: you should never judge an idea based on who threw it out there
My opinion on it has nothing to do with who proposed the idea. I just think it’s amusing that the proposed “solution” as I see it has the exact same issues as the current system in terms of giving the player more agency in the fight and for not a good enough reason, and adding undue clutter to the system based on what weapon counters what…
because poise. and if we’re talking realism in fencing that’s an awful lot more common for each opponent to stick the other in that situation. If we’re talking a lightsaber dual where two targets have a song n dance until the plot armor has come to an end, that’s different.
Poise is a universal mechanic, works for all weapons and in terms of gearing is something you can specialize in if it suits the nature of your playstyle.
Attack animation’s vary drastically between weapon category and even among weapons of the same category. But parry doesn’t (my best guess, I’ve played the game a lot, tried a bunch of shit, parry is parry among weapon types). Yes parry has a different animation between weapon types but it’s consistent among weapon categories. Shields have the same animation, swords, etc… Now what could be a little different are the active frames among those animations for weapon categories but it doesn’t really feel like it. If there is one, it’s small. That said because the animations are different how they feel can be different because the entire point of parry is to be in active frames when hit. ALL OF THIS is to say, parry is a consistent counter mechanic. Once you know your weapon and the animation you can position your character to clip an enemies attacks consistently and it feels dope to play around.
A clinch counter doesn’t make sense in Wicked to me because of how significantly different each weapon animation is and because it’s not a universal mechanic. If a weapon category is to gain a playstyle I think it should be through runes because they’re already isolated by weapon types and could be segregated further so items like rapiers and daggers as you say could be even more unique aside from their animations I suppose.
It’s not about breaking hyper armor, it’s that these functions exist because the combat is centered around a very basic rule set.
- don’t get hit!
- if get hit, take damage
- if attacking while take hit, hit is not interrupted if poise isn’t broken
- if attacking while take hit, hit is interrupted if poise is broken
Not to mention how are we evaluating horizontal attacks, vs vertical attacks, etc. In fighting games with a 2D visual it’s a very different mechanic that I don’t think can just be transplanted into an isometric game apples for apples.
Also I don’t think rapiers and daggers are under rated at all, they’re pretty good at stabbin. If you want disarm I don’t know why a clinch mechanic should serve that purpose. Why not an affix or ring, etc… that changes your parry to a unique parry animation that functions as a parry + disarm. We already have affixes that can remove it so why not ones that augment it. That’d be some real zoro shit, to me it makes more sense than a “perfectly timed attack on an attack”.
If it’s “on par in execution with parrying” then just parry.
overall thats way too much text and off topic, sorry lol
i am just saying, i see no real reason why additional combat mechanics and options are a bad thing.
ah i misunderstood
i’ll keep it short n just say i think it’s shit without context next time mah bad
