the current focus system is quite in a messy state. I’m sure nerfing things will change things up but I wanted to propose another concept around the focus feature.
Right now it’s all about focus generation, so when you reach a point where you can generate more focus than you spend, you’re basically done with the game. This means you can pretty much ignore the intended mechanics of the game and the gameplay becomes stale and boring.
In this game combat is quite similar to souls-like (more or less) and thats what a lot of people enjoy. So the purpose should be to put the player into situations where dueling (combating) is challenging and rewarding.
So my suggestion around focus to promote such gameplay is this:
Remove focus gained from rune attacks - This means that only normal attacks generate focus, which will make dueling more rewarding and will promote the development and use of skills such as dodging and parrying while in the process of obtaining focus and defeating the enemy. This way focus will also be more meaningful and people will have to think when and how to spend it.
Focus Decay - Meaning that focus decays over time when out of combat. With the same purpose of being pushed into meaningful and challenging combat.
Focus Regeneration stat to be changed to Slower Focus Decay - Meaning that the focus decaying would be slower than if you didn’t have stats such as this… obviously x)
Keep up the good work. The game is amazing.
Kind regards.
I’m sure it’s simple enough to find solutions for wizard builds you can put stats such as focus retention on staves or whatever. There are plenty of things that can be changed to still have wizard builds fun and online. My intention is more about general gameplay.
#2 would have some issues as the focus stat itself is built to build more focus for a given fight. If focus decays then ‘max focus’ really loses its usefulness. The focus stat of the hero would have to be completely reworked if there’s a decay. Increasing focus gain and decreasing focus degen each time you increase your focus stat would work (by a percentage).
I really don’t use focus much, mainly due to my heavy 2h weapon, as I find focus abilities take me out of my rhythm and sometimes get me killed. It’s more of a utility stat than anything.
I would like to see gear that can amplify your damage or damage resistance based on how full your focus is at the time - probably needs degen to avoid being OP, but would add another wrinkle/build-choice.
Agreed with the first one, focus indeed needs some changes, rune spamming will be a problem when coop goes live, and PvP will be chaos.
I dont like the idea of focus decay though, it does make sense i mean, you stay out of combat long enought you relax and loose focus hehehe, but the mechanic i dont like, in a game you walk around so much, chopping trees and fishing, every mage will have to pop some potion before any fight, or become a parry god.
#2 can be an interesting variation (focus that decays to 0 over time), but I don’t think it should be the only option. It should come with an upside, though.
I do like that NRFTW has a way to gain focus without consumables, unlike most souls-like games. I almost never play spell casters in souls games, because I don’t enjoy slowly running out of my resource with (eventually) no way to get it back. I enjoy it here, though (even if it’s imbalanced at the moment).
Wizards could be saved the same way archers currently were, through having some runes that cost Stamina instead of Focus that someone whose entire build circles around positioning could use to regenerate
I don’t think making it decay is necessarily the best idea we’ve seen games manage the magic/special meter quite well. Even recently Lies of P did it great IMO. I think this is truly just a math/balance problem which they’re aware of.
It’s just an “issue” from the perspective of a mage, because you want to have your focus full as much as possible so you can spam your runes. But there are other solutions for that. Honestly, I wouldn’t even put mage in a melee position, I’d have staves do ranged attacks instead, like sort of magic projectile which uses stamina, just like normal melee attacks and bows. There could be “blade mage” roles that can fill the idea of melee mage if that’s the route players wants to go. You can also have staff as a weapon type that has inherent focus generation on it etc. There are many solutions for the ranged options. But the idea is to promote active combat where even mage sometimes needs a dodge button.
I agree with removing focus gain on rune specials.
You now have a state where the ‘‘spender’’ is also the ‘‘filler’’. Which, in my opinion is quite unhealthy. I’m, sure they are aware of this.
I like the idea of focus decay since it is a suggestion I haven’t seen before. I initially had a concern with this as it would hinder using utility runes out of combat or before a boss fight. Then I remembered focus potions exist
One idea I quite like, that is in line with keeping combat challenging and meaningful, is rune cooldowns since it incentivizes the usage of multiple runes and people won’t default to the same one over and over. But, I don’t think a lot of people will agree with me on this. It also creates other issues, yet, it’d still prefer it.
Yea exactly… I also dislike the idea of using focus to gain focus.
Rune cooldown would make combat very different tho, I am not sure I’m up for that, but I see how it would make sense in the rune variation usage. But I think people use only 1 rune now because that’s all that is needed. U pick up the best rune and u spam it, the weapon doesn’t even matter, the weapon moveset doesn’t matter also. Yes that still might be the case even with the changes I suggested. You would use the stronger rune over the weaker one, But not having infinite focus would still change the perspective how you rune slot, for example u’d have a boss killer rune and then maybe an AOE rune etc, so you could clear groups faster.
But now that you mentioned cooldown, I was thinking maybe cooldown on focus potions would be nice. Also having focus decay makes focus pots more meaningful, but again you can spam them… having cd on them would maybe promote active combat more.
I used to be on the fence about it, then I started playing V Rising again. It made me appreciate the interactivity of the various abilities. And it becomes this dance of dodging, countering and using abilities.
Agreed, this is the core issue. I think players should be incentivized to make full use of the 4 rune slots. As you say, have different runes for different purposes. We have the option to do so. I just think we are not incentivized as much, if that makes sense. I’d like it if the varied uses of runes would be more clear and effective.
I think cooldowns on focus potions would also be a good idea. We already have cooldowns on healing as a consumable.
Overall I believe that the systems in place need to support their vision for visceral combat and not work against it.
Before patch 1 it was unbalanced especialy with the weapon throw rune, now I find it is in a good place.
You need to invest a lot in focus to be able to generate more focus than what you spend and that mean you are missing on other stats that can increase your damage or toughness.
I’m sorry but that’s not entirely true. You don’t have to invest much into focus at all. Having a weapon with 5% focus on dmg dealt and a band of calmness ring already provides more focus than you spend. Well sure it depends on the skill you use but for runes that require 100 focus that is enough. This is what I use without having any focus-specific gear. I only have pants gem “focus on use” and I never run out of focus.
Part of the problem is that “focus gain on damage dealt” is just really easy to trigger. Because it’s easy, the payoff needs to be low. But if it’s too low, you’re denying people the option of being a full-time mage and forcing players to spend a lot of their time hitting people with sticks.
I’d say nerf it anyway, but offer more options to keep that focus bar full. I’m going to once again suggest more mechanically distinctive runes, may I present:
Rune F.
Long wind-up animation, then launch a cursed rune at your target. If it hits, deal a small amount of damage and gain back more focus than the cost of the rune. Target is then debuffed for a few seconds, during which you siphon off some additional focus from them.
In order to use this, you’d either have to outplay your opponent and time it when they’re unable to dodge/interrupt it, or you’d have to chain it with a rune that makes them unable to do so. Either way, you’d end up with a less spammy playstyle, and get rewarded for it by not needing as many topazes, freeing up slots to add some more power/versatility.
Sidenote: Topazes doesn’t look like a real word to me. Somebody help me out here
I think focus gain on dmg dealt is an okay stat, but it shouldn’t count for runes. I think every hit should be awarded except focus spenders which are already a massive dmg reward of itself. Most of the arguments I see is people complaining about full mage builds… But that’s an easy solution because it’s only one type of weapon, and because of it we shouldn’t impose this system on all types of weapons.
A mage is intended to be ranged anyway, so staves should have ranged projectiles as normal attacks anyway which would fill up the focus. And you can easily adjust that on staves only as an inherent stat or something. It’s not an issue. Don’t know about your suggestion, seems a bit complicated? But I can see the point.
Aye but then it’s no longer the same stat. That’d make it less easy to trigger so it could have a bigger payoff.
Your ideas would work, but come with problems of their own. A staff is still a big stick, wouldn’t be very realistic if you couldn’t just whack someone with it if you wanted to. Although if they added a grimoire as a weapon that could carry most of the same runes but used low-damage telekinetic attacks, I do think that would be a nice addition.
A lot more complicated than spamming, sure. But isn’t the excessive simplicity a big part of the problem here?. Plus this comes with the benefit of flexibility, there is no reason why this should be the only rune that grants focus. Players could choose according to their preference, or even pick multiple.
“Your ideas would work, but come with problems of their own. A staff is still a big stick, wouldn’t be very realistic if you couldn’t just whack someone with it if you wanted to. Although if they added a grimoire as a weapon that could carry most of the same runes but used low-damage telekinetic attacks, I do think that would be a nice addition.”
Doesn’t have to be realistic though A lot of people said they wanna play purely bow builds, which are entirely ranged. So staves don’t have to be any different, mage concept is ranged anyway so you would prefer to create distance instead of taking time to melee. It’s not necessary to risk taking a hit as a cloth user. + you have 3 weapon slots if you wanted to melee someone, you have melee weapons that scale with same stat as staves
Ye that sounds good. I was also thinking they could add like scepters for hybrids… which would be able to use 1h weapon runes and staff runes.
“A lot more complicated than spamming, sure. But isn’t the excessive simplicity a big part of the problem here?. Plus this comes with the benefit of flexibility, there is no reason why this should be the only rune that grants focus. Players could choose according to their preference, or even pick multiple.”
Yea simplicity is the consequence of the current system. But if that changed things would already be different and more versatile. But yea I can see what you are getting at
A few ideas (all assuming focus gain from focus abilities is removed):
1. Focus degenerates, but each focus point through skill points or gear (currently not in game but could be added) would increase your continuous focus generation (would make the focus ability more viable at higher levels). If you invest heavily in focus then you could cause positive generation (would have to be balanced, or have diminishing returns, to avoid becoming OP) which would allow for extreme variances in build: a mage would have a ton of focus while a 2-h axe wielder would have almost none.
2. A rune which allows for a ‘gain focus over time’ cast. Costs 100 focus but you gain 20% focus per second for 10 seconds. Would be a very slow cast. Could be a key component of mage builds and making sure you don’t fall below 100 focus would be key.
3. Increased weight decreases stamina and focus generation. This would push archers/mages toward lighter cloths (cloth and leather) which would make playing them a bit more risky while making it seem more like a fantasy game.
Right now it seems like ranged heroes are a bit of an afterthought in the game. Anything which bolsters them would require significant work on the developers’ end (otherwise you just stand on the other side of the screen killing with little-to-no risk).
you can put stats such as focus retention on staves or whatever. There are plenty of things that can be changed to still have wizard builds fun and online. My intention is more about general gameplay.
