I am incredibly disappointed to learn that Multiplayer is no longer coming with the first major update for Wicked as advertised, but that the focus has been shifted instead to updating the Crucible with additional content first.
I and my friends were wary of picking up Wicked before multiplayer was available, because (like Wicked) Kerbal Space Program 2 was also under the Private Division label. Yet after a year of early access KSP2’s promised multiplayer feature never materialized. Now KSP2 is likely being cancelled and with it any hope of getting anything resembling a finished game much less a multiplayer game.
But despite the Private Division concerns, we still purchased Wicked when early access started to 1) support the game and 2) because the advertised Roadmap listed multiplayer as being the very first update. Additionally, Moon Studios developers claimed Wicked was built from the ground up with multiplayer in mind. And with all of that information in mind we trusted them that multiplayer would be added to Wicked relatively soon.
As the Roadmap does not provide any ETAs, we don’t know if major updates will show up in a month, 6 months, a year, etc., so swapping the Crucible update in front of the Multiplayer update has the potential to create a major delay for multiplayer to be added as a feature.
With the way studios and games have been getting shut down lately I am at an all-time-low as far as confidence with early access titles go. And until multiplayer is actually available to players in Wicked, there is a chance it never gets added to the game. I understand the developers intend to add it, but I’m also certain all of those developers who suddenly found themselves without a studio this past year also had plans and intentions too.
Multiplayer should be released with the first update as advertised. Those of us who are waiting on it have been doing so quietly and patiently, and maybe that silence has given Moon Studios the impression the interest for the feature isn’t there, but it is. Don’t punish us for waiting quietly by pushing us further back in the line.
I really need to stop supporting Early Access titles if this is how things are going to continue to go.
This is not a defense of the decision(even if I only personally think it’s the right call) just something I want to note the Crucible is not taking over the place of Multiplayer it is simply being overhauled right now. Multiplayer might still be on track for being the 1st Major Content Update it’s just that in-between the months of waiting they want every “patch” to be a notable one thus one of the things they’ve decided to implement/overhaul is the Crucible. Just like how the 4th patch could be a skill tree, then the 5th magic off-hands, these are all substantial but they don’t match Multiplayer in scope or size.
I have no issue with updates being added to the game while their planned major updates are in the works (in theory they’ve been doing that since early access started. But the explanation given on their Discord server was that multiplayer was being moved back to a later update. And it was also stated that “Crucible is far cry from where it should be”, which suggests a large amount of work needs to be done on it.
Their team is not so large that they can focus on updating the Crucible without it having some level of impact on the multiplayer update. Even if we just consider that each update is tested internally before it’s passed on to us, that should tell us that work on the Crucible will delay the release of multiplayer.
Can work be performed on both at once? Sure. Is that the same thing as saying the schedule of one won’t have an impact on the schedule of the other? Absolutely not.
If the Crucible update wasn’t having an impact on multiplayer’s timetable, then I think they would have simply announced that updates to the Crucible are being included in the Multiplayer update, and Multiplayer would still be scheduled as the next major update release.
Yeah i want more story and so on, but the decision was sound since adding MP and coop with so little gameplay is a bust, i still think they should just concentrate on finishing the new areas and advancing the story, even if that makes the updates take 3 months between each.
I don’t really understand that line of thinking because co-op is also considered content. Playing a game together with friends is a very different experience from playing it alone.
You suggest “adding MP and coop with so little gameplay” will be a “bust”… if that’s true then how do you explain that people have been enjoying their single-player experience? Wouldn’t it be a “a bust” as well? There are plenty of players who have been patiently waiting on the multiplayer update so they can begin having fun with the game they purchased months ago.
Also, adding content to the Crucible without the presence of multiplayer in the game means the work involved only initially benefits those choosing to play the game as a single-player experience. Where as adding content to the Crucible after multiplayer is in the game means the work involved benefits both solo and co-op players - i.e. a larger audience.
I agree that playing with friends is content, but not the content i meant, and just for clarification this is in no way a critique to the quality we have now, i mean im addicted to the gameplay hehehe, im clocking on 200 hours on this.
Maybe its easier to mess with the crucible than to add coop, you have a lot of questions in coop, not the friendly fire, thats a given with less damage.
We have the experience to consider, how will it be distributed, will i gain XP near the kill or from the other side of the map? Will i gain xp if someone else kills the boss without me? What if they deliver a quest i completed by just standing near the quest giver while i do the work?
So this part is again my own personal thoughts but I’m with @BrasilBorba1 where I think having MP right now with current systems is a bust because there’s simply too little content. When you play with friends time flies by, this 15 hours of content could feel like 5-10 due to that. Even if we added the Crucible overhaul + MP at the same time the Crucible is inevitably an optional dungeon/testing ground for builds for hardcore players and just isn’t suitable for casuals. And I define casuals in this instance as players of ARPGs who need the game to guide them towards an objective/quest/goal not necessarily people who just do main story.
I have always, again personally, thought that MP would work best after the Crucible & Breach update because a large influx of players(and I do believe the MP update will bring in the largest amount of new players) are more likely to be wowed & recommend the game after that when there’s substantially more zones + weapon types + spells because let’s face it the game right now is “basic”. I think the reputation of “this game is worth the money & will triple on release get it now”, is better than the game’s current “this game is amazing but short on content”. And that reputation wouldn’t change due to the MP update if implemented right now IMHO.
Again, I don’t understand how you can suggest there is too little content to support playing through the game with a friend, while implying there’s enough content to support playing through the game alone. That just doesn’t make any sense. It’s the same amount of content, except now you have two different ways to experience it.
It sounds you’re suggesting (through your “time flies by” comment) that the multiplayer experience would be more fun than the single-player experience. How is that a bad thing? How does that work as an argument against multiplayer?
It also sounds like you are saying the addition of multiplayer would be such a huge hit that it would be wiser to for the game’s success to delay the addition of multiplayer until the game is nearly complete. I think the same could be said about single-player as well - players would have appreciated the single-player experience more if they received the game when it’s in a more completed state, no?
Part of Early Access is accepting the fact that game is still in development and the content isn’t all there. When you’re participating in Early Access, either alone or with a friend, you should have that same understanding if you choose to play the game. The payoff is you are able to provide feedback that can influence the development of the game. The later multiplayer is introduced into the schedule, the less influence players can expect to have on how it ultimately feels and plays. That is not a good thing. I care more about that than the surprised annoyance of someone who picks up a game in Early Access title and unrealistically expects hundreds of hours worth of content.
I don’t think there’s enough content to play the game alone currently for singleplayer either is the thing and I never said that it was anywhere in this thread. Everything I think about how the update schedule + roadmap is for maximizing the success of the game, not for maximizing my fun or the fun of the game for the staying fans/hardcore fans. In fact what would make the game most fun for me is to get MP, then crucible, then farming because I have a hardcore enough friend group to play this game for dozens of hours on end, but that is not what will make this game blow up and I think in this case logistics matter a lot for a game with this much potential.
Even right now when a person who seems to be on the fence for buying the game I always clarify that this game is great for hardcore players who can find their own fun, not great for one-and-done casuals. If someone says they’re a casual I outright tell them to come back in a few months and see what the roadmap is like.
The “time flies by” is a “con” for multiplayer because I think friends finishing the game in 10 hours then leaving without giving much input or without the game leaving as deep a impression as it could(because the bosses aren’t that amazing yet besides EK) is worse than the alternative of MP coming later and friends having 20+ hours of content when they do decide to buy the game together.
For your 3rd point no I don’t think the game should be nearly complete before it launches MP either it’s not the fact that it will be a huge massive hit, it’s the fact that I want new players to leave with a really good/deep impression of the game. And currently I think the game lacks both enough content & meaningful enough content for the way time will fly by with friends. There’s basically only 3 builds right now for example(health/stamina/focus regen), the elements do jack, and magic only has ONE weapon type.
Yes singleplayer owners would have appreciated a more finished game but that’s already been done it had to launch eventually for BTS reasons and that has provided valuable feedback. Feedback which will fix the game BEFORE the next massive wave of new players THAT is another point I want to make. The feedback given is vital to improving the starting experience of the next wave of players because to be frank I don’t think we’ll experience another big wave before 1.0 besides MP. We will definitely steadily gain a huge fanbase but every wave of new player’s starting experience must be successively better & better. I think if MP launched right now before Breach or Crucible the impressions of new players would not be THAT much better off than when EA first dropped and I think that would be damaging to the game’s overall success.
I think everyone can appreciate that you’re focused on maximizing the success of the game, but I disagree that this is the right way to do it.
There is an argument to be made that an Early Access game can enjoy more success by allowing players to provide feedback sooner in the process rather than later (the success Baldur’s Gate 3 enjoyed is an example of this).
The sooner players can start providing feedback on multiplayer the better, especially when the developers have stated that Wicked was built from the ground up with multiplayer in mind. There are aspects of this game (such as realms, trading, the economy, city progression) that are significantly more multiplayer oriented than single-player.
There is also timing to consider. Gamers are being saturated with new games now more than ever, and it’s increasingly difficult for a title to hold onto a player’s interest for very long. Releasing a multiplayer update when Wicked’s Early Access hype is high is likely to attract more attention and sales than if the same update were released a year or so down the line once the public has moved on and shifted their attention to newer, shinier games. Other big multiplayer games are on the horizon, like GTA 6’s release next year and eventually Light No Fire, and I think it would be a mistake to try and compete against them for gamer’s attention. Wicked is not releasing into a vacuum where it can afford to pick and choose its moment at its leisure.
But adding in multiplayer sooner will ensure it is implemented better.
As for BG3, act 1 was polished to perfection due to players being able to test it extensively. Act 2 was okay but showed some cracks, and act 3 was just bad and buggy due to limited player testing.
If multiplayer is introduced early it will ensure a smoother multiplayer experience throughout the game as more content is added. Potential road bumps can be prevented early.
I really wish there was an open mic discussion about these things. i really dislike typing out responses that require intricate tone and delivery.
I’ll just say
There is absolutely NO WAY Multiplayer can come to the game ANYTIME soon.
The reason for this is the sheer imbalance and lacking progression value of the game right now. As a low-skilled player I am just WRECKING this games Meta as there is a very clear sign of it.
The game CAN be fun and it’s awesome to obliterate foes but when only a couple runes and a couple weapons are at this stage of universal capability I see no way multiplayer could be released now and not just stack on the imbalance 10 fold. I personally think the game needs to get a lot more sophisticated before multiplayer can drop.
I think that comes down to the player. You’re saying you’re low-skill, but meanwhile a frequent complaint about the game is that it’s too difficult. If you’re low-skill and wrecking the game then how do we describe the skill level of the players who are struggling with it?
The developers have repeatedly said that Wicked was built from the ground up with multiplayer in mind and I have to believe they have some inkling of how they can integrate it. It’s clear from their comments that they already have some version of it working in-house. My understanding is that co-op has to deal with additional enemies (which in a Souls-like game is no small threat) along with the challenge of friendly-fire.
Ultimately I don’t see the cause for concern… you imply the game is imbalanced in single-player, what difference does it make if it’s initially imbalanced for multiplayer as well? Balance needs to happen across the board. The sooner multiplayer is added the sooner the balance for it can be improved. No realistic balancing can be achieved in multiplayer before that happens, so delaying multiplayer is simply kicking the can down the road to the detriment of the final result.
While I don’t necessarily agree on the format you’re seeking, I do wish more of a discussion was taking place about this out in the open (on a forum) rather than being dropped as nuggets of information on their Discord chat where I suspect relatively few see it firsthand and in a timely manner. I doubt most people are even aware that multiplayer has been pushed back. This is a topic that deserves more than a passing thought in chat from the developers… no one purchased Wicked because of the Crucible (how could they when they hadn’t yet even had the chance to experience it or understand what it was), but I’m certain many people specifically purchased Wicked because multiplayer was advertised as being just around the corner.
I have never beaten or enjoyed any souls-like element games.
I had a VERY VERY hard time with No Rest
I became good when I started to test different runes and weapons and didn’t stick to just…what I like.
After trying many runes and weapons I found a very noticeable gap between certain weapons and rune abilities which allowed me to go from having a REALLY hard time to making the game look super easy.
So when i say low skill I mean someone who raged constantly at how damn hard the game was…until I decided to stop thinking everything I had was bad and instead looked at the fact I could be using the wrong weapon or runes for these situations.
SO I will say the start of the game is definitely hard, but it wasn’t long until I realized it was hard because I kept trying to play it like other games. It has a different structure and well…Meta to it that proves the ease of the game if you just test and tune a few things.
I am a racer at heart and have come from the bottom being someone who couldn’t tune a suspension parameter to save his life to now playing Sim Racers like it’s cake. SO I know what was hard and what is now easy simply due to further understanding. I think the difficulty of the game is shrouded in the fact a lot of players do not yet understand what is strong and with that said the Developers haven’t balanced weapons enough to make them Universally capable in a way that using any weapon and type can achieve a common goal across the board. At this time there are simply a couple weapons and runes that stand out above all else and pushes the narrative of imbalance. Which also comes from having little information about Runes and their perks like Staggers, Knockdowns, whatever the heck SPLASH does and Poise damage versus Raw damage.
If we add multiplayer it will exacerbate the situation of balance and to me make it harder as we are now trying to balance for many more variables than tracking down balance for at least 1 player first.
I disagree. Balance can’t be properly achieved until all the core factors are in place. Multiplayer, whether we are discussing co-op or PvP, is not some minor side feature of little consequence that has no impact outside of those who use it. The game was built from the ground up with multiplayer in mind and it’s a system that has an impact in nearly every aspect of its design. Even single-player enjoyers, at a bare minimum, are expected to engage and benefit from its market and economic systems.
It is pointless to spend time balancing the single-player experience only for it to then have to be revisited all over again when it’s discovered that balance doesn’t play well in a multiplayer setting. Wicked needs to achieve a balance that satisfies both single and multiplayer, and that can’t happen until at least the framework for both sides of the game are present and interacting.
For that reason it would be unwise to spend time fleshing out something like the Crucible to improve it for the single-player experience only to have to revisit and modify the design all over again once the inevitable issues arise after it’s tested in a multiplayer setting.
It is insane to me how some of the responses in this thread are arguing for development time and effort to be shifted away from a major feature like multiplayer and spent instead on fleshing out what has proven to be an unpopular end-game activity… a rogue-lite flavored smattering of randomized rooms to grind though indefinitely. That is the same dull path that Diablo 3 took for its end-game and Wicked is supposed to be attempting to redefine the genre, not emulate it. Why are people trying to push the game down this same tired path? Is this really to be the end-game? There’s a reason we’re not all still playing Diablo 3.
I just wanna say I don’t think that last paragraph should be your whole argument because that feels like another discussion entirely lolol. I could feel that rant coming from the soul and building up for the last 10 years haha.
I’m still on the edge of the exact order I want Major Updates to come in but one reason I think the Crucible can be allowed to be added in right now is that system of the game is kind of isolated & separate from the rest of the game. It’s a feature of the game that can implemented without disrupting the balance, or imbalance really, we have currently with gear/progression.
I’m with you though the MP coming now or later doesn’t really change the balance problems it’ll come anyway we just have to hope what Thomas said about difficulty actually scaling up, unlike in most souls games, occurs and requires similar balancing to the normal singleplayer experience so it doesn’t pull even more dev resources.
To be fair, there are a lot of topics in the forum that express frustration with the crucible as it is.
The issue is that the crucible’s current state is a placeholder and thus not reflecting the possible end game accurately. I myself made a post about how I didn’t like the crucible in it’s current iteration and so have many others. If they made it so the crucible is what they imagine to be, they can start collecting better data and feedback on the end game content much faster.
This means that the devs are listening to feedback of the community in terms of complaints with the crucible. It most likely got it’s priority boosted, which makes sense as there are at least a dozen or more crucible posts
From Thomas’s conversation in Discord I got the impression it was going to be more rogue-lite, not less. He did seem to suggest that there would be other end-game content as well, so hopefully that’s accurate.
