Shields, Tanking & Group Play - A tank players plea

Wicked Feedback
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The Good.

I want to start off by saying, I really like Wicked, Its obviously a game that’s been lovingly crafted and toiled over at nauseum by people who care, with amazing visuals, challenging gameplay and a really in depth story. and everything that I write from here on is out of excitement for the games potential, and love for what the game is right now.

With that being said…

The Bad.

When reaching sacrament I found that with each shop or NPC I walked up to, I was greeted with a wall of text that Im supposed to read before interacting with them, I read the first popup, but by the time the second popup showed itself, I got bored and decided to just wander off in a direction, closing any other popups as soon as I could just to get through the town.

The Crucible.

What can I say​:musical_note:except your run is over.:musical_note:
Now, Im sure others have talked about this a lot, and it didnt take a lot of scrolling to find someone with some really good suggestions, which you can find here and I think most of the suggestions are valid, though I want to throw my hat in the ring, suggesting a left 4 dead style revive system. If you get downed? You appear in a cage or trap or something to the effect in the room after the next.
Basically, if you go down in room 1, Your team can find you and break you out of the trap in room 3.

My Plea as a Tank Player, a Shield Lover, and an Aggro Puller.

Now I assume this is going to be the bulk of this post so buckle up if you’re along for the ride and skip to the end for a TLDR.

When first picking up wicked, I was curious, that curiosity quickly turned into excitement and just as quickly turned into a tinge of disappointment when I realized! Shields suck…
Now, before I get too into the weeds on what I think can be done better and what is done well, I want to pull back the curtain just a bit and delve some personal beliefs as to what a tank should be, feelings wise.
To sum it up? This video.
A presence, an anchor. When you are playing with your team in almost every game that features a tank; be it FF14, WoW or, the game that I have the most time in, Overwatch. When you encounter a threat or are in danger. Whats your first reaction? Run for cover, fall back, fight back. All acceptable and valid to be sure. But my first thought is Get. Behind. My. Tank.
Get behind the brick wall of a person who, if need be will throw their body into the lions den to defend their team, who will spit in the face of a dragon 10x the size of themselves to pull aggro so that their damage dealers and mages can have just that split second, that ONE second to get themselves to safety.
That is, in my opinion. What a tank should be.
With that being said? I know (as much as I wish otherwise) not what a tank should be in No Rest for the Wicked.
So now what?

So What Should a Tank be? Should There Even Be Tanks in This Game?

The problem with shields & how to fix it while not breaking the game or making them mandatory.

Well yer darn tootin right there should be tanks in this game! It would be awesome!
The tank is a core part of a party, as mentioned before. So how does one go about making tanking viable in a game like no rest for the wicked without making them at best, overpowered, or at worst mandatory?

So whats the issue with shields right now?

Well, with just a few hits and you wont have enough stamina to attack or roll away, thats effectively the bulk of what shield gameplay is right now in the game, at least from my experience. no matter what you do when you have your shield up, take damage in one way or another. Putting your shield up to block or parry is considered a last resort, in the games current state and it just feels like a sluggish afterthought added to the game, or at the very least one of the least loved parts of it. And, to be fair I dont expect to block the attacks from an entity thats the size of my house be able to attack it afterwards not at all, but I should be able to block the attack of someone thats twice my size and be able to walk away from it without bleeding from every orifice in my body.

And how do you fix the issue with shields without making them really OP

When I talk about shields and tanks, Im primarily talking about the great shield class of shields in the game, you know, the ones that stand just about as tall or taller than your character in game.

  1. The BandAid Fix.
    Simply make it too stamina hungry to be viable unless you spec into it.
    Greatshields are, well just that GREAT. They’re massive and the stamina cost for using one should reflect just that, an unleveled character that isnt speced into stamina should only just be able to hold one up and take a hit or two before breaking posture. Where as someone who is leveled and speced into stamina should be able to take 4 or 5 before needing to back up and break from the fight.

  2. Shields should PROTECT. not NEGATE (within reason)
    Part of the reason that Shields feel so awful in this game is because almost no matter what? You take damage when using one. Which just down right feels bad. Whats the point of me blocking that hit when I could have just… dodged it? Especially when fighting a boss or larger enemy it gets less and less viable as the game progresses. Greatshields should block 100% of the damage that hits the users shield save for a weapon the size of a truck ramming into the side of it or AOE damage ect, you get the picture.

  3. I have a sword too, dont I?
    One of the big problems with shields blocking 100% of incoming damage is that it gets really easy to abuse, to counter this, adding a one second timer or something of the like, before the user is able to attack or bring their shield back up again is pretty mandatory. Adding the ability to attack while behind your shield would be great too, though obviously at a significantly reduced damage output. Dont allow for equipping both wand and Greatshield at the same time or at least require a stamina cost for casting spells while blocking.

  4. Hey You! Over Here!
    Now we get into the fun stuff. Rooting, Aggro pulling, a protective shield cast at just the right time.
    Tanking shouldnt just be about being a brick wall, it should be about enabling your team and manipulating the battlefield with all the finesse and poise of a brick.
    Runes that root any enemy within a short radius of you, or that force the enemy to attack you and only you. runes that, although with a very short duration a second or two boost your party members defense to an insane degree, or rather, any damage that they receive you take that damage instead! You can add amazing, fun, and skillful depth to shields without relying on “Im now a brick wall until I run out of stamina” Anchor Howl & Castle of Stone from the show
    “Log Horizon” is a perfect example. of runes I would LOVE to see in the game in some shape or fashion.

With this LENGHTY section done its probably time I wrap things up.

TL;DR

Tanks dont have to be an impenetrable wall of HP and damage denial, but what they shouldnt be is an overlooked and underloved dreg of an otherwise amazing game. If you dont want to play a tank I get it, its not for everyone and its not for every party, hell, if you want to form a party of 4 mages and nuke a room with a snap of 4 fingers, go for it!
But a tank should be a parties safest place in combat, an individual that no matter what, my rogue or my mage can look at and understand “the safest place I can be right now is behind them” and be all the better for it.

Ill update if I think of other things or someone brings up some better alternatives as to what a tank should be.
Thank you for your time. <3

-skrimp

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I think you need to get further in to the game. Shields are definitely pretty bad low level. Once fully enchanted, they can be highly effective. Damage on block can be strong. You negate all stamina issues with regain stamina on block. The larger the shield, the more poise damage they do when blocking, making it much easier to stagger an enemy from a block and run around them for a back stab. Healing gems, while not super powerful, can make up for the small amount of health you lose while blocking. There is also an enchant which increases damage resistance while blocking which can help. Getting stagger resistance can make it so you can block forever, even on bosses. The only thing missing really is a taunt. There is one rune called taunting strike, but I don’t think it actually taunts.

In regards to parry, what makes it strong is the focus gain from it. You can parry most attacks in this game as well. My main build is a parry build, and I can one shot a lot of enemies with just one parry using the damage on parry enchants.

Another thing to consider as a tank build is the shove you get when having a heavy equip load. This knocks enemies off edges and knocks down most elites. Just knock em down and let your team pummel them as you regain stamina. Rinse and repeat. It can even interrupt certain boss moves you would rather not deal with.

If you want to tank, I think this game has a lot going for it. The only thing it’s missing is a way to force enemies to attack you, i.e. a traditional taunt. Enemies generally try to fight players close to them, so it doesn’t take much to get the attention of an enemy trying to chase someone, but it would be nice to run in to a crowd and make them all attack me.

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how far into the game do i have to be to get a solid tank build going? Im currently at lvl 11, almost 12, my party is at and around the same level as me, I feel as if Im not doing anything important for the team and can barely fend off a single mob while my mage can clear a room in a snap, making my only current use for when we encounter a larger enemy, and even then I get two tapped. as for runes that heal you when you block, does that apply to larger enemy hits? Im very willing to power through and try to get a good tank build going so I can better understand the state of shields and taking in the game as it progresses, but right now it feels very unintuitive to me. I appreciate the info!

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Runes are your utilities or the weapon abilities that use focus. There are two heal utility runes - one is a quick, small self heal that you start the game with, and the other a channeled aura which can heal other players.

What I was talking about are the enchants on blue or purple (plagued) gear. There are no shield enchants which heal on block, but there are some gems which heal you slowly over time, 10 to 15 health a gem, that you can slot into your gear. That’s what I was thinking about when I say healing while blocking. With enough armor value on the shield (great shields fill this role), you take such small damage while blocking that those gems can heal you up. You can also use lifesteal weapon infusion or plagued infusion to get life back by attacking after they bounce off your shield.

When it comes to getting two tapped, I am assuming that is while not blocking. The shield reduces a lot of damage, but if you aren’t blocking you will still take decent damage, even at end game. Barriers (another enchant) help tremendously for surviving unblocked hits, but most require setup during a fight (like eating, parrying, dodging damage, etc). You will want to wear mesh or plate gear for survivability, keeping them as high a level as possible as you level. Gear falls behind quickly if you don’t, so you keep replacing your shield as you find higher level ones until one has the enchants you like and then upgrade it in town as you go instead of replacing. Essence embers allow you to move one enchant across gear pieces, so look out for those to always have the enchants you need on your gear. You can also use fallen embers and pray to RNG gods to re-roll an enchant to get the one you want.

I generally don’t level up with a shield, but my buddy did and he says he likes them. I suppose it comes down to expectations. Leveling up, you will die if you can’t block or dodge damage. You won’t have the stagger resistance (need 2-3 pieces with it) more than likely to block big attacks for long and aren’t familiar enough with the game yet to parry the big attacks instead. I didn’t personally get in to shields until max level. May be fun doing a fresh shield run to see how things play out. Reminds me of classic World of Warcraft in that leveling tanks aren’t really that good of a tank until they get certain abilities.

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As the tank main of my group, I agree! I do hope as well to finish my build. Especially like what fishypixels said that shields are def pretty bad low level which is painfully the truth. I do notice I can tank for my group but leveling solo is a drag. Supporting my group as a tank is also difficult as well so having like an aggro or pull kind of skill would be awesome. Perhaps a way to buff/debuff enemies while tanking? Hopefully devs provide more love to the paladin players :heart_hands:

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So I started a new character on hard and have played to lv 18 so far with just a Greatshield and one hander. My stats are 20 stamina, 34 strength, 20 focus, and 17 equip load. Having no points in health goes to show how effective mesh and Greatshield are at mitigating damage.

I found two skull gems which helped regen the chip damage I was taking while blocking. Found damage and stamina on block early. Wearing full mesh with two agile pieces helping my stamina regen. I found a mottled gem for shield which does damage while blocking, which is a new one for me because it pulses damage while you block even if they don’t hit you. Managed to get all 4 pieces to have stagger resistance.

So what I noticed:

You can’t block everything and live. Elemental damage, especially fire, builds up quickly while blocking. Anyone walking around with an elemental weapon I had to handle with care and block sparingly. I either kept them on the ground with shove, or lured them to a ledge. Bosses I also blocked sparingly, mostly parrying for focus and punishing. Falsteed gave me the most trouble. Took about 10 attempts. Ranged enemies are the worst right now since damage on block has stopped working for ranged attacks in the together update. I think they are looking in to, but the chip damage from that can be brutal.

Block is amazing for setting up ledging. Once they bounce off the shield, shove and win. Dodging forward in to backstab is also strong. Use all the tools available to you.

I felt forced into a strength faith build. The only Greatshield I ever found had those stats. I had to unlock respec in the crucible and use research to randomly discover and craft a strength shield so I could move over to strength. Kind of a bummer since I am not a huge fan of the str faith weapons. Climbers icepick was decent though but lacked chase.

So block and poke was an effective play style, especially on trash enemies, but if you want the play traditional MMO tank leveling up, meaning you can block all the things all the time, that’s not gonna be possible until end game. Personally, I think the game is better for it. Requires that your tactics change depending on the situation. I find the leveling challenge stimulating, with some end game builds becoming somewhat mindless and repetitive. For example pre together update, I had a build which couldn’t die unless ledged. I could literally just stand there, no blocking no nothing, and bosses would kill themselves just hitting me using damage on damage taken, lifesteal, and increased healing. Fun to build, but not fun to play.

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More like, fun to flex and build. I would love to show this off to my friends as they all built ranged of sorts and are glass cannons hahaha. May I ask, how did you get your loot? Did you craft them or just rng? I am lvl 14 and don’t have the faith tank gear I need :confused:

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That build is no longer possible. You needed a ring which did damage on damage taken but consumed stamina on damage (which still exists) and also damage on damage taken on your chest piece, which they patched out. They’ve been wanting to move that stat to thorns, which unfortunately does not benefit from lifesteal. I also had increased healing and damage reduction based on durability on most of my pieces, but you can only have those on one piece now. Honestly if you want to flex, I can just give you that set (requires lv 19 though). I don’t use it anymore. Had something like 80% reduction across all resistances which is absurd.

In regards to getting shields, I found 3 or 4 crimson guards just randomly which is a strength faith greatshield. I used fallen embers when necessary to slot machine the block enchants I needed. With Davos upgraded to lv 2, there are 20 off hands you can research. Two are strength great shields (oaken tower and risen pavise), with the crimson guard as the last one. Rotwall, the faith based Greatshield requires lv 3, which will open up a bunch of other shield recipes making unlocking a Greatshield harder. What I would do is make sure you have had as many offhands as possible in your inventory to reduce the pool of randoms to research. That includes quivers, simple torch, and the int/agi shields. Crafting the strength shields need wolf skulls, while the crimson guard just needs a human bone. You need to meet the stat requirements to get the proper damage mitigation. The crafting level is random, so may require crafting a few to get a low level shield with lower requirements. Another strategy is to just create new characters and realms until you find a lv 1 greatshield. It won’t have stat requirements you can’t meet, and then you can just upgrade it to your level to get better mitigation. The mitigation doesn’t scale with the stats, just the item level.

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