Mechanics Need Love!

Wicked Feedback
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Preface

I think a lot of issues players face and complain in the lategame stem from the gameplay feeling less tactile or not engaging enough - as the most efficient play styles feel a bit too similar. What could really help and add diversity to the game, is giving players more options to interact with the game and define their builds and play style mechanically, rather than only through stats.

The following is a list of mechanics that i feel would make the game more interesting, more tactical and more visceral if made accessible. Underneath each mechanic I will list some ideas and thoughts.

There is lots of potential for great mechanics in Wicked. Most of those listed are already present in the game in some way - They simply could be made (more) accessible to the players and in some cases tweaked a bit.

Feel free to comment, discuss and share more ideas in the thread :heart:

Sidenote

One great solution to make play styles more distinct and make mechanics mean something from my pov, would be to tie item/talent affixes and effects to more distinct mechanics - ā€œDo X when dealing damage/hitting an enemyā€ is not interesting, ā€œDo X when blocking/parrying/backstabbing/dodgingā€ is.

  • This would also help to give mechanics more of an identity, based on which effects are tied to them.
  • Also mechanics can be balanced this way - The easier it is to apply a mechanic, the weaker affixes can be and vice versa, we can already see that with Blocking and Parrying.

Stealth

Give players (and potentially enemies!) more access to Stealth and make the stealth system more tangible. There are lots of great inspirations, that can be drawn from, with options, which wouldnā€™t encumber the game.

  • Add or make more visible: stealth indicator - how well am i hidden right now?, own noise, enemy noise (out of vision), enemy fields of vision, enemy level of alertness
  • A lot of other mechanics can make stealth a lot more interesting

Distractions

Give players (and potentially enemies!) more options to distract enemies.

  • Can be used out of combat to make stealth more engaging (control the enemies movement, rather than waiting)
  • Can be used within combat to buy time or create openings

Cover

Give players (and potentially enemies!) the option of going into cover and/or create cover, to protect against incoming attacks and/or secure strong tactical positions.

  • Leaning on Walls and going into cover could be automatic (no button press needed)
  • light cover / medium cover / walls with different advantages and disadvantages are possible
  • Cover, can be destructable (barricades)
  • Consumable items or abilities can create cover (e.g. craftable wood barricades / ice walls)

Status Effects

Expand the existing Status Effects functionality and/or add distinct Status Effects. Make Status Effects more tangible.

  • Give clear indicators for Status Effects on enemies
  • Potential new Status Effects: Maim, Blind, Daze, Bleed, Poison, Silence, ā€¦
  • Status Effects can escalate. Either through them having an effect baseline before they are fully applied or through them having additional effects, when applied multiple times (in succession).

Displacement and Movement restrictions

Give players (and potentially enemies!) more access to displacement.

  • Potential types of displacement: Shove, Pull, Teleport, Switch, Drag, Tethering, ā€¦

Grappling (Throwing?)

Give players (and potentially enemies!) more access to the ability to grab and/or throw enemies, or even objects

  • Could rely on Strength/Stamina
  • Can emphasize a tank role (occupying the enemy), or an (unarmed) damage role (dealing damage through grappling) or controlling role (displacing enemies)
  • Throwing / Moving objects adds additional tactical and strategic options (could also work well with stealth/distractions/cover)

Threat System, Taunting, Deescalation

Give players more ways to influence enemy aggression, either in general or towards them specifically.

  • Can be integrated with the stealth system (less baseline aggressive enemies are more easily maneuvered around)
  • Aggression can be a double edged sword (Enemies are more dangerous, 'til they run out of steam)
  • Deescalation could potentially go as far as getting (minor) enemies to fight for you

Zoning

Give players access to the ability to create positive/negative/neutral Zones, to create a more tactical environment

  • Baseline Types - Can be combinable: Danger/Impairment Zone (harmful), Safe Zone (protects), Elemental Zones (advantage/combos based on elements), Chaos Zone (creates new rules to follow, which have to be adapted towards)
  • Some Ideas: Rain, Fog, Totems that need to be destroyed, Healing/Shielding Circle, Mud, Twister, Null Zones (no sound/no sight), Fire, Oil, Plague Cloud, ā€¦

Summons / Companions

Give players (and potentially enemies!) access to summons or companions that provide mechanics of their own.

  • Summons/Companions should have distinct mechanical functions! Different flavors of meatshields/damage are boring. Runes could be an option.
  • Either strictly limit the amount of summons/companions or tie them to sources that would otherwise grant power/versatility in a different way (weapon or Offhand, Ring slots, Talents)
  • Maybe taming of certain enemies and caring for your pet/companion could be in the game
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Cover
Give players (and potentially enemies!) the option of going into cover and/or create cover, to protect against incoming attacks and/or secure strong tactical positions.

  • Leaning on Walls and going into cover could be automatic (no button press needed)

oh lord please no. i am already mighty annoyed by sidle. I so hate this in every game that has that. When mid combat your character suddenly sticks to a fence and u canā€™t move freely as u want. no thx

Threat System, Taunting, Deescalation

Give players more ways to influence enemy aggression, either in general or towards them specifically.

  • Can be integrated with the stealth system (less baseline aggressive enemies are more easily maneuvered around)
  • Aggression can be a double edged sword (Enemies are more dangerous, 'til they run out of steam)
  • Deescalation could potentially go as far as getting (minor) enemies to fight for you

Zoning

Give players access to the ability to create positive/negative/neutral Zones, to create a more tactical environment

  • Baseline Types - Can be combinable: Danger/Impairment Zone (harmful), Safe Zone (protects), Elemental Zones (advantage/combos based on elements), Chaos Zone (creates new rules to follow, which have to be adapted towards)
  • Some Ideas: Rain, Fog, Totems that need to be destroyed, Healing/Shielding Circle, Mud, Twister, Null Zones (no sound/no sight), Fire, Oil, Plague Cloud, ā€¦

Summons / Companions

Give players (and potentially enemies!) access to summons or companions that provide mechanics of their own.

  • Summons/Companions should have distinct mechanical functions! Different flavors of meatshields/damage are boring. Runes could be an option.
  • Either strictly limit the amount of summons/companions or tie them to sources that would otherwise grant power/versatility in a different way (weapon or Offhand, Ring slots, Talents)
  • Maybe taming of certain enemies and caring for your pet/companion could be in the game

This all seems very strange for this type of game. I canā€™t see this being of any use or adding anything to this game. Some games have that, and yeah, it can be okish, but why here? This game lives from exploring and struggling. Those type of features would in my opinion just make it more convoluted and in parts too easy (especially the companion thing).
With multiplayer coming soon, i really do not see the need to have 4 players with 1 companion each running around those narrow maps.

i can def. see some changes to status effects tho! Also a fan of kicks or shoves for more combat variety.

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good point - just highlighting it because it is easy to miss :wink:

  • stealth ā†’ yes
  • distractions ā†’ maybe, not sure if it could work out
  • cover ā†’ not sureā€¦ its already confined enough
  • status effects ā†’ yes, but only if they are 100% applied to bosses aswell otherwise no one would use them
  • displacement ā†’ partiallyā€¦ shield push already exists and is op at edges. This should stay an advantage of meele builds maybe.
  • grappling ā†’ not everything must be BG3 :wink:
  • threat system ā†’ not sure if it would be wasted, in the end i smack them
  • zoning ā†’ maybe that can be done with simpler tools (less magic). Allowing enemies to do friendly fire (always) would be a start maybe.
  • summons/companions ā†’ yes, but maybe tricky to do well. It would need to !not! hinder the character, and i am not sure how easy that works out.
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Thank you for your input :pray:

Yeah, I hate that as well. Good point! Going in and out of cover should be fluid and not restrict actions. Some games do it quite well though. Cyberpunk 2077 for example if my memory is correct.

Just adjusting the stance a bit (hunker down) could be enough in most cases. Maybe the sticking to the wall should only be a thing, when it comes to puzzles when it is necessary.

I try to separate this a little bit.

Taunting / threat
Threat mechanics are already in the game. When we have multiplayer we can figure out exactly how enemies target priority works. Why not build a mechanic around it?

I personally like playing tanks or controllers and many ARPGs already have ways to increase threat/force enemies to attack you/immediately attack you. Could be a nice tactical element, especially for a game like this!

Deescalation
Pretty niche mechanic, that could enable stealth or more laid back play styles. Again - already in the game through moving far enough. Why not build a mechanic around it? Could directly be part of enemy attention/aggression mechanic, thus not adding too much. Again interesting tactical element especially in a game like this.

Taking control / Befriend
Taking control of enemies is stronger than killing them when other enemies are around and weaker than killing them when no other enemies are around. As long as it is balanced (no easy to apply / requiring buildup) it would enable interesting play styles. Try to compare it to damage and you will always realize killing enemies is easier and faster most of the time.

Zoning
Already in the game. Enemies use zoning all the time (literally place down zones of fire and plague). Why not the players?

If you arenā€™t familiar with the term -
Zoning is a thing regardless of wether you emphasize it. For example - When i play a tanky character and place myself in front of the enemy I create a safe zone behind me. When i play a dps character that can spam an ability and i spam it on an are I create a Danger Zone. Same with stealth in PvP. When you go out of vision there is a potential Danger Zone everywhere you could come from. A misunderstanding of Zoning as a concept makes you a worse player in many games.

I just really like the concept as it adds another more tangible tactical element to the combat. A fight over control of the battlefield.

Companions
Yeah, I like companion/summon builds, but I get where you are coming fromā€¦ Companions/Summons are the one mechanic i feel could really easily become too strong - I really dislike when people feel they are forced to use companions. Although when the power is shared between these and say nuking the enemy, a balance can be struck.

Some things that could work:

  • Totems (immovable and timebound summons, that can be destroyed)
  • Intangible summons (again, restricted and with concise mechanics)
  • Ghosts/Echoes that can be damaged but do not block movement
  • Something like a (singular) cute/fearsome town dog, that could accompany the party. Maybe dig up some treasure for us :dog:

Yeah Status Effects should be cool!

And pushing enemies around (like they do us) would be nice for a change. :upside_down_face:

Cheers :smiling_face:

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Thanks for the reply :pray:

Thank you for that!

You can be hitting and dealing damage in any game. We want Wicked to be special, so we should reward what makes it special :smiley:

I really like the moment in stealth games when you make noise somewhere and draw everyones attention. Mid combat we could also use feints ā†’ Get the enemy to block without truly attacking. There are some options.

Was thinking the same thing. Created cover should always be destructable and/or donā€™t last for long, it should maybe limited to cover you can climb easily over without jumping ā†’ Providing full cover, but not restricting movement. The being in cover animation should also be fluid and not to extreme.

Yeah i dislike when status effects donā€™t work on bosses. Which is one reason i am recommending escalating status effects. Just make stack buildup slower on bosses?

Yeah displacement can be dangerous in 3d environments. Anyways around 90% of my deaths are to fall damage. Why not return the favor?
Yeah, I like that heavy armor provides that benefit - It would still be a benefit when others can use it with abilities. And melee builds should have more/easier access for sure.

Wait - BG3 has grappling? :upside_down_face:

Yes, for most people, especially it would not matter as much. For me it would. Big Time. Also enraging enemies is often a fun mechanic in games, boss phases are a good comparison. The advantage of enrage is that enemies can go back and forth and can have different triggers (e.g. fire/one or one specific one of their allies killed/not being attacked in a while/reaching a specific health%/being attacked from distance/etc.).

Magic provides the best examplesā€¦ Smoke grenades / Shieldwalls / Calltrops / ā€¦ There are lots of non-magic options as well.

Yeah i agree. See my post above, listed some ideas there.

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ah, ok i understood it in a way of ā€œgrapple on smtā€. Like grapple one goblin and hit another one with his friend. (and yes, that works :wink: )

also in forums bro :sweat_smile:

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Nice :>

Donā€™t push it too far though :upside_down_face:

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Zoning
Already in the game. Enemies use zoning all the time (literally place down zones of fire and plague). Why not the players?

If you arenā€™t familiar with the term -
Zoning is a thing regardless of wether you emphasize it. For example - When i play a tanky character and place myself in front of the enemy I create a safe zone behind me. When i play a dps character that can spam an ability and i spam it on an are I create a Danger Zone. Same with stealth in PvP. When you go out of vision there is a potential Danger Zone everywhere you could come from. A misunderstanding of Zoning as a concept makes you a worse player in many games.

I just really like the concept as it adds another more tangible tactical element to the combat. A fight over control of the battlefield.

Ah, then i misunderstood. thought you meant it map wise, like have different zones on the map that have different effects, for example when chased by an enemy u can ā€œfleeā€ into a save zone, e.g. a settlement or area around NPC where u canā€™t get attacked. What you are talking about is not really a feature tho, isnā€™t it? When doing for example a mage built u can already create AoE dmg runes, some which linger on the floor, creating a ā€œzoneā€. And when they add multiplayer i am pretty sure you can just play like that (save zone behind tank etc) with your friends. still donā€™t quite get what should be actively added? Visual queue? Passive stat boosts? No friendly fire in that zone?

And regarding the status effects: we already have that, with plaque for example (or elements). But what is def. missing is some sort of proc-bar like the poise bar, that shows the player if a status is building up or not. Can be optional too, like showing poise bar or not. Would also help with finding weaknesses (if there are any), for example boss XY is weak to fire, so fire status procs faster and deals more damage over time.

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Hmm :thinking: ā€¦ Your suggestions are a good start! Top of my head: Much more options, for people who enjoy that play style. Maybe movable Zones (Auras). Maybe even some Affixes on items / Talents that affect that play style (for example stronger effect/increased Area/longer duration/more damage dealt to enemies within them, less damage taken). The beauty is, those affixed donā€˜t have to be complicated, as long as they reward the play style.

Yes a bar would be one solution. One potential problem i see, is with multiple different status effects existing.

I personally like stackable status effects, that have an immediate effect, stronger effects the more stacks are on the enemy and an additional effect, once the Maximum is reached. Resistances could affect the amount of stacks that are applied and/or the strength of the effect, as you described.

We could also have some visual indicator (like the target being more and more on fire) :fire: