yea totally
i would even be content with a souls style asymmetric system or a system you can influence. like if you enchant it with elemental damage, the faith or int scaling increases. but if you put 200 points into str you can still smash in a head with it.
If we go by âimmersionâ and the argument that you need to be strong to wield certain weapons then my argument for bow scaling with strength should be valid. And a claymore would probably also be a dex scaling weapon, unlike shown in Fromsoftware games and others, most 2-handed swords weigh only 2-3 kg and are relatively âeasyâ to swing around. if they were as heavy as implied by some games, they wouldnât ever have been useful =)
i think the system you provided goes in the right direction, i just think that we maybe should move on from those basically arbitrary attribute assignments some rpg invented ages ago. i can have my archer/warrior/mage fantasy without it being limited to dex/str/int alone.
This pretty much sounds like the answer. Devs should consider giving it a go.
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Dont fix what aint broken.
The bow should scale with STR only works until certain extent. If youâre stronger than what the bow could handle, you wouldnât increase its power, the bow would just snap. With that argument in mind, we could assume that the base strength is whatâs needed to draw its full strength. So to increase its efficiency, accuracy/dexterity is needed more instead of drawing power.
We are on a fantasy game I dont minde having a bow scaling only with dex and anither bow scaling from either dex or str. As long as the weapon scale with the stat that make more sense for that weapon type iâm fine. Same go for sword some can scale from str, some from str or dex and some from str or int. Even one or 2 outlire like a sword that scale only from dex is ok as long as tha majority follow a standart.
or we just assume that any cerim is strong enough to use a bow so ultimately itâs about how good you are at aiming at the head.
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I agree with you. I think having STR. INT. DEX and FTH without really representing those stats are really misleading. STR does not represent the strength of a character. It represents what weapons you can wield and its damage. Same for other stats.
Check out my feedback here
But for the nomenclature alone, STR, DEX, INT, FTH could be changed to
- Sharp weapons mastery
- Staff weapons mastery
- Bonk weapons mastery
- Bow weapons mastery
So it still somewhat make sense if a spear requires sharp and staff weapons mastery, etc. Your suggestion is far more liberating though. But the character would basically have full proficiency in all of the weapons. Sword in one hand, bow in another, with extra main/off hand weapon wielding staff and shield. All of those yield full efficiency.
The problem is that its hard to have meaningful decisions combined with âi can do everything at anytimeâ.
I personally like final stats because that is what my character has become and i have to deal with that.
Boundaries are important to make your decisions meaningful. And its about to become somebody âthe journey is the rewardâ.
The fact that decisions can go wrong makes your build special and unique. Nobody can come to your point so easily and thats a good thing nowdays i think, because the frustration about meta builds spamming over the place are higher than leveling a new char (And there will be pvp and in the end maybe team vs. team (thinking big now).
I do like the âprofession/masteryâ approach coming from the old and wise Ultima Online which i played a lot.
Ultima Online had no leveling mechanic which is often the core problem of the âlocked into somethingâ cause there is no turning back.
Doing something with something makes you better with something in the specific mastery at any time in the game.
Its interesting that the devs from NRftW with this âall-in-oneâ-principle never thought about this, because you can fish, blacksmith, fight, farm, cook etc. like in UO
I guess its too late to remove the core leveling system ⌠maybe build a mastery system in parallel but that would be too much
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This isnât the first time itâs been suggested, merging the main attributes into one, and I doubt it will be the last.
I think the current system could be fixed if Moon were more strict on what weapons get what attributes. If you want to use a greatsword, you go into STR and thatâs that. If youâre an INT user, maybe there would be a way to place INT scaling onto a greatsword at a reduced amount thereby still allowing you the fantasy you had in mind.
I know they have more systems in mind that will allow us customization for your character fantasies and builds so Iâm content with waiting. It might not hurt for someone on the team to dive deeper into this though.
I understand that merging all of those stats into one most probably create more problems than a solution. check my post a bit above this one.
But locking weapons to stats like that would be against devs vision. They want to create a âsoft classâ systems where player can chose and experiment whatever they want to.
My feedback still have tons of flaws, but I think the flexibility would still be there. You can be a mage focusing on bonking power, or an agile greatsword wielder, or a rapier wielding douchbag that can cast magic. Those would still be feasible but with different strength/weakness than the traditional mage, warrior, or fencer. The hybrid mage would bonk hard but have weaker magic compared to traditional mage, etc. The possibilities are more open than the current system.
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I think its not about using a weapon, its more about handling one.
More realism:
If somebody gives me a hammer or sword could hold it in my hand and try something out, but i CANNOT handle it at this point.
I have to learn how to handle it.
This is why i also think it would be good to remove the equip-requirements so everybody can wield/test everything on a low potential base.
But there need to be scaling factors⌠i like the elden ring approach here and wicked is not far off that.
Merging all attributes in one sounds very comfortable ⌠maybe too comfortable which leads to âi am a master with every weaponâ?
Maybe ive got something wrong with your idea.
I mean its hard to fulfill 2 scaling requirements. Maybe every weapon has only one primary scaling attribute?
And if you put a maybe a holy damage gem on it or a holy rune the item scales with faith too?
just thinking loud âŚ
Ok lets experiment a little bit:
What about a naked character with nothing on.
Putting something into STR does nothing for my fist fighting skills right? Somebody tested that? If not, that would be weird, because i am getting stronger.
That leads to the question: âWhy are we having this attributes which only affect our equipment?â Thats feels not right i guess.
I rather want to have attributes connected with the ânakedâ character and my equipment benefits from that.
Maybe there are armor parts scaling with faith ⌠increasing a holy shield aura effect on that ⌠or something but everybody can equip it.
But how much realism is good for the game.
Complexity kills the casual player âŚ
idk
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going to respectfully disagree.
Your idea would work, i question the snowball effect it would have on longevity and experimentation
If we had a single attribute ( might or aggression are both great names btw) , why would i try different weapons? Try different play styles ?
Imagine an archer focused on Might ?
barbarian type character focused on intelligence ?
the attributes allow you to craft something different, try something new, keep exploring and learning how each playstyle animation affects your combat style differently
While I agree with you wholeheartedly, I think the current system doesnât really reach that anyway. It merely creates that illusion of flexibility. For example, a character with 42 str with sword that requires str and a character with 42 int with another sword that requires int at current state doesnât really differ at all. The âstrengthâ characters has no more strength at swinging his sword compared to the int one. âswordsman focused on strâ and âswordsman focused on intâ while technically exist at the moment, is not really different at all.
aah, that makes sense - i like it.
so different attributes should be felt in the weapon choice and fighting style?
Question ⌠would that not lead us to an âinformalâ class system?
a barbarian by another name
there is something here though. a way to keep the vision of the game ( true classless) and highlight the differences in the attributes selected or ignored in your game play
I think Attributes donât have to be complex, to work more in the way you describe (also like Elden Ring as an example).
We could simply merge the Attributes we already have 
Strength = Equip Load
Intelligence = Focus
Dexterity = Stamina
Faith = Health
But in all seriousness. I really like the more functional and direct attributes, the game already gives you, why not incorporate them into the archetypal stats:
- Somewhat low number of stats, with clear effects that are universally good to have
- Diminishing returns on stat investment to deemphasize whackiness and strong unbalance through one stat being perceived as better than the others.
I like the idea of equiping weapons immediately and them scaling with different attributes. Having a fixed number threshhold feels arbitrary - Why can i hold this weapon now and how am i not getting better at using it (except from damage), when i invest in the threshhold stat?
Also on a separate note - Why do i not hit like a truck with a staff when i have 50 Strength?
good points and questions raised.
count me in
how do we get eyes on this ?
Thomas already confirmed they are changing how attributes will work.
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Strength and equipload is tightly-coupled for sure. I also thought about merging that. The tricky part is: How much can you merge without losing too much overall flexibility.
@Psytoxin came up this something i also found interesting.
btw are critical strikes currently in the game?
yes
Thats exactely the point. In my opinion Weapon/Gear should be as neutral/passive as possible in relation to the wearer. They are just tools, becoming/effecting something in the hands of the wearer. Therefore every physical melee weapon in the game needs a STR scaling for the melee damage part. How much each weapon scales is another story(maybe some weapons scale more in higher STR ranges). I do not want my STR to scale my magical damage output with my two handed staff for sure.
The weapon designer has to decide what is involved in the scaling of all the different parts of the weapon and this formula must be clear to the player (more tooltips)
Maybe there a weapons or gear items with implicit attributes/effects giving them more personality.
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Thereâs no Critical Strikes in the game atm