I know there are already a lot of different threads regarding the attribute system, but i think most of the issues with the current system (weapon requirements, attributes feeling unfullfilling, etc.) could be solved by one rather radical but in my opinion reasonable change:
Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Faith should be removed as character attributes and be replaced by a single attribute that increases dmg of all weapons (and ofc their runes). It could maybe be called Weapon Proficiency. Additionally, that of course would result in the removal of weapon stat requirements.
This would solve many issues with the system right now, and could fulfill more build fantasies (maybe a caster that wields a bow as secondary option). I think the classic rpg-attributes str, int, etc. could be outdated for NRFTW, there aren’t even really used for anything noticable currently (other than restricting players from certain weapons and some crazy builds-ideas).
I definitely think there should still be something separating an archer who really trains a lot in order to use bows efficiently compared to a brute who sometimes wants to snipe an enemy from a wall.
I would just either broadly separate weapons into damage categories like "smashing/blunt, stabbing/shooting, magic and buff these damage types by those attributes. Or just better and intuitively distribute the weapon scalings and remove the requirements in any of those cases. But if I play an archer I want to level dex and deal more damage with a bow than my fighter.
If you really wanted to keep the aesthetic of different archetypes I’d suggest keeping the stat requirements to Str / Dex / Int / Fai (corresponding to Warrior, Thief, Mage, Priest) But do we really need a ten different combinations? Is there a need for Dex / Fai build or Int / Fai build?
That, if I’m understanding it correctly, means that 9 out of 10 weapons will be unusable to you, regardless of what build you choose.
But maybe in time some cool identity will form for all of the ten combinations and it will all be worth it but so far it feels like a very arbitrary limitation.
I don’t want stat requirements
I just want scaling that is more broadly and intuitively distributed. Like every sword and hammer has str, every dagger and bow has dex
And maybe some special weapons also have magic attributes and scale with int but that doesn’t prevent my fighter from swinging them.
And I want those attributes to do something else so I don’t feel like wasting points because I found the wrong weapon
If we go by realism(i know, its a game, but bear with me), your archer should also have more strength than dexterity, because using a bow requires quite a bit of back strength, especially over a longer period of time.
And i think giving people more possibilities is a greater good than restiricting them to fulfill very specific fantasies. And going by posts from Thomas Mahler that is also Moon Studios goal.
Well yea we don’t have to go there
I just think the basic fantasy is you play an archer you level dex and you equip a bow and deal a ton of damage but then if the first bow you find also has int scaling and you can’t even shoot it that just ruins everything
And if you want to build a hybrid that shoots with a bow and bonks with a hammer you can level dex and str and not worry that the first hammer you find will have a faith wall ruining your game.
I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the system, but I’m not saying they are wrong. The fact that people misunderstand it should consist as feedback for the devs.
Right now you can get any weapon in the game, upgrade it to tier 3 and that would make it as powerfull as any other weapon of the same type no meter what the item requirment are. The starting dual daggers at tier 3 end up with 20 damage same as any other dual daggers.
Weapon requirements they may look random and all over the place but they are like that so even if you have invested in a specific stat you can still equipe diferent weapon types that benefits from that stat. Even if you have dex build you have a wapon that request dex stat almost from each weapon type 2h, 1h, bow, dagger, etc. And you also have the starting weapons that have no requirements. Again if you upgrade those starting weapons to tier 3 they get as strong as any other weapon.
All that said it is confusing because when you find a weapon type that you like and invest in it later you may find the same weapon type that require different stats and while the damage is the same i may realy like the atack animation or the model of that new weapon.
It also take away the excitement of progresin and finding new weapon. Why bother just upgrade what you have it will be same or even stronger.
Rune slot also play into this because if you want 4 runes in your weapon you need to use gems in other words the best weapon is that white starting one equiped with the runes and gems you want and all you have to do is to upgrade it.
For me stat reset would be the solution so if i find a new weapon i like i just have to reest my stat to acomdate for it. Reseting may require some specific resource that are not that common like ichors maybe.
Sorry, but i genuinely do not understand your argument. My proposition was to remove the old style rpg stats, so a bow scaling with int or hammer scaling with faith can’t happen. Actually its the other way round cause we have some sword scaling with faith and/or int right now.
I hope, you can make this a bit more clear to me, where you see the problem
To further my own point:
Maybe we could argue that 1 stat for weapon scaling is not enough and we could have 2, one for physical dmg scaling and one for magical dmg scaling, but there is no reason to have multiple stats for weapon scaling, especially if the same weapon type can ‘randomly’ scale with different attributes. It just kills the build diversity Moon Studios is hoping to accomplish with their soft class system.
I just want the system to make sense and let me spec into a fantasy and a play style from the beginning of the game without constantly dropping weapons that say “nuuuh uuuhh”
If I start an archer character I will intuitively put almost all of my points in Dex and I want to be rewarded for that.
Maybe it’s just a weapon accessibility problem rn that the first good bow I found was int scaling
These should be outliers and I should have found 20 different pure dex bows before that.
i dont think simplifying stat system is the way, i played tons of dark souls and what i love about it is the stat system where you can build your character towards a certain weapon or skill and not be a do everything with 1 character type thing. it creates replayability and that is what matter most.
This game doesn’t work that way tho
You constantly find new weapons with better affixes and switch them up
So there needs to be consistency within your whole class and character fantasy not just one specific weapon
I like stat rest in any game in general. Because I like to invest in a single playthrough, I don’t like finding in midle of the game I made a mistake and I have to start over.
That’s not the point
The point is that it’s part of THIS GAME that you constantly equip a new weapon because it has better enchantments than then previous one and the stat system is preventing that and a respec option is needed but it’s not the solution. Just a band-aid.
