It would be great to have a special follow-up attack that triggers after a successful parry or block — not only with shields, but also with weapons. Similar to Elden Ring’s guard counter, this would make both shields and weapons feel more rewarding and add extra depth to combat.
Shields are a strange situation Where if you build around them you can become immortal, but usually you only see them held in the off-hand to give buffs and no one raises the shields.
The most interesting way to use the shield is to have effects that activate on perries and have fun with them.
There are already two changes planned for shields: the first is that They are adding runes to shields (finally), and the second is that holding down the perry button raises the shield (perhaps weapons will also have a defensive position like in Elder Ring).
Elden Ring is the only Souls-like where I enjoyed using the shield when I tried it. And it is largely thanks to the guard counter.
But I’m not sure if it’s a good idea in the context of NRFTW.
With the addition of the Runes to the shields, I think the shields will be fine, especially if there are also runes that cost stamina.
Maybe there could be some runes that cost less Focus based on recent hits blocked, or that do more damage based on recent hits blocked and things like that.
Having said that, I’m not against the “guard counter” idea but it has to be implemented well.
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Yeah, I agree with you — I also think shields will become much more solid once runes are added to them.
But personally, I always feel a bit strange when I pull off a parry with a regular weapon and then just follow it up with a normal hit. It feels like it’s missing that extra rewarding touch. I think a unique counter-attack animation (something that really sells the payoff of landing a parry) would make the whole mechanic feel much more satisfying.
I did a couple of threads about shileds use ideas, opposite to you I hate parry.
After all, I think runes implementation are going to improve shield usage.
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In my taste Perring is a cool thing to do to get out of sticky situation, not really a playstyle, if u get too good at parrying you actually trivialize the game, for this reason the only shield enchantment i really like is “gain health on perry”, the reason is that “do damage with perry” is only useful when you spam the perry.
Perring the very strong, to the point that I stopped practicing it to not trivialize the game, you can just use a 100 focus rune after a perry, it feels good to me.
Blocking 100% damage would be nice but the devs should find a smart way to balance it.
Maybe instead of using poise or stamina there should be a resource bar specifically for shields let’s call it “Guard”, the Guard bar recharges over time, when you block with a shield the Guard bar is damaged instead of your hp, (it would work a bit like having a second HP bar that protects your True HP,) when the Guard bar runs out you are stuck for a short time doing an animation where you lose your balance (much shorter than the poise one) & you can’t use the shield again until the Guard bar it’s fully recovered, Excess damage to your Guard is not transferred to your HP: basically if you have 30 Guard and an attack deals 100 damage you take 0 damage (instead of 70).
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"I’m not talking strictly about numbers or balance here. The idea is more about something that feels fun, looks good, and adds to the overall experience. Having a follow-up attack after a parry or a block would give a really nice feeling, even if it’s not the strongest move. It doesn’t have to be powerful at all — I’m totally fine with it being weaker — the important part is that it looks and feels stylish, adding more flavor to the gameplay.
If we keep focusing only on numbers and balance, the game will lose a lot of its fun and end up feeling flat and boring, without that artistic touch that makes it truly enjoyable."
Yes but suppose this repost or counterattack is added, then for balance, then you can’t also get 100 focus it would be too op, If a repost or a counterattack is added it can’t be too weak because that would be weird they should be at least as strong as a charged attack. This means removing the focus or at least nerfing the amount of focus you get on a perry.
For a game to be fun it must be balanced because “Given the chance, the player will Optimize the Fun Out of the Game“ (and this is especially true in RPGs), but I agree that balanced game is not necessarily a fun game, The fun still comes from the gameplay, but if the balancing isn’t right, the gameplay suffers.
Using a rune instead of a repost adds more variety to the gameplay, and almost all 100 Focus runes are pretty cool as a Repost, for example I hate the basic claymore rune, but used as a repost it’s cool, almost all the wizard runes that cost 100 Focus are very cool as a repost, and if you want you can decide to use the focus for something else, like healing yourself or attacking a different enemy.
It’s not that I don’t like reposts, but I prefer having more decisions to make than having an opinion that is always correct even if it can be more satisfying in a vaquim.
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On the other hand, you have this:
If you build up arround blocking with enough poise resistance and armor, every encounter with enemies gets reduced to staggering them and then hit. But bosses are a different thing.
Obviously this “Guard bar“ mechanic if implemented it should also be a two-way thing.
When enemies have their shield up instead of taking reduced damage and you deal poise damage, they will have a Guard bar and if you reduce the guard bar to 0 they can no longer use the shield, and if you leave them alive for enough time they will recover the Guard bar and can use the shield again (obviously it is better to hit the enemies when they lower the shield), obviously when you hit an enemy with a shield up your attack “bounces” but I think it is appropriate to remove the poise damage since it is very strange to cover a shield and remain surprised for a long period of time (it is strange both when it happens to you and when it happens to enemies).