Vision and words are on thing, reality and execution an other.
I’m pretty optimistic that they can pull something special off.
I just hope that it won’t take too long because legitimate doubts will come and the current hype is going to fade, one way or an other.
Agreed.
My current concern has shifted from losing the soulslike feeling to the systems being shallow though.
Obviously it is EA, but, I really want weapons and enchanting to be deep and complex, because they have the systems in place to do so.
Edit: I want them to capitalize on their potential more.
I agree.
I think that if they manage to improve, balance, and deepen the enchantment and infusion system, indirectly it would also benefit the Soulslike aspect.
I understand the concern but I, personally, won’t push too much, for now, in this direction.
As the Souls-like game feel is still my main concern I want to see what will be the next big shifts in the game feel with what already exist.
Early Access Patch 1 is mainly about performance and quality of life improvements.
It doesn’t, yet, redefine/shape what the definitive intended experience will be.
That said, I have the same feeling, some mechanics, especially the basic ones(ex: movesets), could benefit from a more engaging and deep design.
I would just advise to be careful because the more you add features and complexity without being extremely careful, the faster you reach the META game universe.
The issue is they have a ven diagram of people who like these games and only a few that sit in the middle. They are 2 very different games with very specific things the fans of those games want. Not saying they can’t do it as I really hope they can (as I am one of those sitting in the middle)
Difficulty has been a big subject of discussion as usual when it comes to soulslikes and this highlights what they are working against. We don’t need to start a discussion about that (as there is plenty already) but it highlights one of the biggest gaps between players of these games. I think most agree that the loss of that initial feeling the further into the game you get is a concern. We all want that kind of combat and the feeling we had when we first played the game.
Fully agree with OP. What is the vision of this game? It seems very conflicted. I’m fine either way (though would prefer a Souls-like), just would like to know so that we can give proper feedback.
The CEO can says things like “It’s not for everyone”, but this is just PR. Everyone here thinks they are the target audience. If that statement were to mean anything, the CEO would say who the game is NOT for.
My main priority is combat. You can do mostly whatever with gear, but the moment you jeopardize combat fundamentals I lose interest. If your combat is not good without fancy particles, then it isn’t good.
Wicked has good combat until the game breaks. Diablo players are OK with this and Souls players are not (generally speaking). This is the crossroads Wicked is at. Once you cross this line, it’s hard to uncross it. The expectation is that if I get build X and press button Y, I should be winning.
What combat enthusiasts are looking for is core aspects like timing, direction, stamina, weight, commitment, and other things associated with Souls combat regardless of what part of the game you’re in. Your skill should always matter and it should always matter most.
Couldn’t agree more. I think what they are trying to achieve is possible but players need to be aware of what that means for what different people want from the game. It is never going to be a hardcore souls game and it is never going to be a meta build Diablo/POE type game. I really enjoy the combat myself but the beginning section was more engaging.
I really enjoy the combat myself but the beginning section was more engaging.
You’re identifying the issue correctly. The bones are great, but the stuff added to the bones, which appears to be enough gear effects to change the game fundamentally, are breaking the combat and turning it into something approaching Diablo.
I can feel your passion when I read you and I like it @HexTheHardcoreCasual . 
But most of us here have spent the last 3 weeks working on the subject and, sadly, and don’t think there is much else to say.
I checked your post and checked all the replies but it’s mostly things that have seen or said here already.
I also gave you a reply(my reply) .
I’ll continue to try to rally people sharing my observations by inviting them to share theirs but I would say more or less: now is the time for patience.
Unless someone comes with some new Moon Studio’s announcement or a really new and fresh perspective to open some engaging discussions.
I have been thinking the same thing. I believe most people are saying the same things but differ in how they want to maintain that feeling that they loved. I think many people are looking for a consensus, but really I don’t think there is one. My concern is that people are starting to do what they do with many new and upcoming games (Starfield is a good example) by creating in their mind what they feel they game will/should be and that is never good. I think we need, as with other games, realise it will be what it. I will be (I don’t want to say watered down but…) more of a condensed and version on both games hopefully with the better parts that we like together. I think if people get the finished product they will play it as makes sense for them. If they like grind and over powered builds they will do that and the others that like a soulslike experience will get some of that. In a lot of ways we are over analysing the game. Only because we all really love it,
I hope that we will have definitive answers from Moon Studio soon.
They are the only who can get us somewhere in our discussions.
…more of a condensed and version on both games hopefully with the better parts that we like together.
I think you lean into Diablo or Souls. You can’t do both. The combat in these games are on opposite sides of a spectrum. It’s like saying I want both deep and shallow combat at the same time. Or I want simple and complex itemization at the same time.
i feel like we’re forcing ourselves into creative rails, and this is a bit absurd.
this is no rest for the wicked, not dark souls or diablo. it takes certain aspects, but it’s neither of the two. it can be it’s own thing, with enough creative vision and effort.
this is what i mean. “you can’t do both” when it is neither of the two. having elements of a game does not mean you have to inherit the games’ limitations aswell.
if you told me that dark souls shouldnt have diablo mechanics or vice versa i’d agree with you, but what we are saying here is that a completely separate game that has some ties to these games should be one of the two; you understand how this is narrowing the vision for what NRFTW is?
think of it as an entirely separate game and your vision will change, believe me!
stop comparing start envisioning i say
I’m sure a majority of us understand that this isn’t a souls-like nor a diablo-like, but that’s exactly what this thread is about… what is the game meant to be like? You can’t just say:
Then magically we all suddenly understand. We want to know what NRFTW will become.
I don’t want to be confrontational but it seems that you haven’t carefully enough read the original post of this topic.
Especially where it says:
If your experience, observations and conclusions are too far from mine there is absolutely no reason to debate because there is no chance at all that my experience, observations and my conclusions even make sense to you and IT IS NORMAL.
I have been playing V Rising quite extensively lately the past few days. And, I quite like how they handled the power progression. It’s also the closest comparable thing to Wicked, from the games that I have played at least. The most noticeable difference, speaking strictly about combat, is that Wicked is a lot harder.
The early stages of Wicked and V Rising are quite similar. You start fighting a few enemies and start learning the system. V Rising has a lot of bosses thrown in here but they are very easy. Whereas, Warrick feel more like a challenge, which I really like btw.
As you progress and get more powerful, you get more abilities, jewelry for skills, gear, weapons etc. The combat becomes both more challenging and fun. There is more interactivity between the systems. Thrash packs consist out of more enemies and harder enemies with more deadly abilities. It’s the mix of being able to use your cool abilities whilst countering and dodging the occasional attacks. That provides a unique experience. I’d like Wicked to have something similar where, the further you progress, we can live out our power fantasy against the mobs. But, still respect their abilities. I’d like deadlier mobs and more of them.
Fighting against bosses means you adhere to their mechanics and use your abilities when required. The boss fights are not as challenging as Wicked’s boss fights. But, they retain that element of responsiveness. Dodge this mechanic, counter that move, ability A after he does this. It becomes this pattern that Wicked had at the earlier stages, and still has for me since I don’t abuse rune spam stun locking. The earlier bosses in V RIsing you can just wail on though. Overall, it builds to the power fantasy, whilst remaining it’s identity.
I’d quite like it if the overall experience for Wicked is the same, albeit more challenging.
what is the game meant to be like?
As the developers have already hinted in the Showcase and Thomas reiterated in this post on X, Wicked wants to try to change things and create a new type of game. If we trust the developers and if we’re all here having paid for an Early Access, I think we all do, we can say that the game is a Wicked-like.
Let’s just give them time and space to develop and better define their vision for the game.
We all know that many elements that are part of the game now might not be in a few months. I believe the developers have a clear final goal in mind for this game.
What’s happening in this post, in my opinion, is like trying to guess what a chef is cooking based only on the ingredients they’ve put in the pot, without having the slightest idea of how they’ll be prepared or if other ingredients will be added.
While I share the enthusiasm and can’t wait to taste this delicious dish, I think we should be patient and let the chefs cook. Time will give us all the answers.
Again, you can’t say “Wicked-like” cause realistically that doesn’t mean anything… as of yet.
People currently want to know the direction the game will go, and of course I’ll wait, but for some they want might want to know now before its too late. It’s always good to question and be curious of things.
If the statements from the team and the CEO regarding what the game aspires to become are not sufficient, then there’s not much else to discuss.
At the current state, any definition given to the game is incorrect.
We can only say that it’s an action, adventure, RPG, but it’s neither a Souls-like nor a Diablo-like, and plausibly it will never be either of these two things.
How can something be defined with a word that doesn’t even exist yet?
And how can we expect to have that definition now when the game is still in development?
I continue to argue that expecting to know the exact direction of the game already, having access to barely 10 hours of content, composed moreover of gameplay systems that are subject to change or not yet fully integrated and balanced, is really premature and leads nowhere.
