I also suggested more practical use cases of the Jump in the game on one of @RomoloHero 's topic here.
I said Jump on this topic because you can only suggest 3 features and I had to make a choice but I think that there is surely more possibilites for more mechanically creative plays by modifying slightly the current behavior of the base actions possible in the game now.
Also, I think that generally the game could benefit from more varied combat dynamics and situations than the actual dodge/attack/heal Trinity.
These kind of changes may take some time to be implemented because they require more complex layers of design choices to be made.
To be fair, I feel like swapping one of my suggestions to:
Adding a toggle to allow runes to be cast manually on 1, 2, 3, 4 with the Mostly Keyboard Scheme.
Waited 2 weeks for the key rebind options and still canāt play the way I want
At least I can parry with RMB though.
Back to the topic at hand:
They could extend the movesets of each weapon. Some weapons have very basic movesets. With only a 2-hit basic chain and a 1-hit running attack.
I do feel more varied attack options could be fun. That way combat becomes more dynamic in the sense that you have to chose what attack type to use. Charged attack, normal attack, running attack or rune special.
I always like reading your posts @Lamni Itās fairly obvious you care a lot about the future of the game.
Healthy disagreements and the clashing of ideas create innovation. If people always agree with each other they become blind to the same thing. Iām very used to reason from different perspectives. And I always hope to contribute to this post in that manner.
In a general sense we want the same outcome, right. We just sometimes have different ideas on how to get there, which is fine.
I think this sums it up pretty well. You donāt realize that you create a problem. There is too many variables to conceptualize the problem beforehand.
This is where reversed sequential thinking offers a solution. Look at rune spam for example. Rune spam would then be the dependent variable and you reverse engineer the problem with every variable interacting with it. And create this flow chart of dependent, independent, moderating and mediating variables. If you do this you quickly realize that focus gain on rune use is an issue. So you adjust one thing at a time, since changing multiple can have additional effects. Unless they are properly identified, and the effect is properly calculated.
I think the biggest issue remains the hypothetical of how gameplay should change over the course of the game; progression. I feel like enchanting expanding more over the course over the game would help. I feel like it does too much right now.
I agree with this. You need to actively work to gain access to your rune specials. If they want to lean into increased focus gain, Iād suggest cooldowns on runes. It works for mobaās to avoid spam. If not, itās easier to limit focus gain by simply not adding it to the affix pool. Still doesnāt solve the issue of focus gain on hit. Tucked Falcon has a running attack that is like an 8-hit combo which stacks focus fairly fast, like 80 or something in 1 attack. It barely deals damage though.
Iād prefer this, not the mini-game itself as it adds another dynamic I need to play around. The idea itself is fun, but Iām already stressed out enough fighting certain bosses and worrying about my positioning. Itās my first soulslike
Great perspective. I almost fully agree with your main argument, though with an albeit small, but meaningful distinction.
I prefer the term visceral to real, when it comes to Souls Likes. They do feel emotionally real, as moment to moment choices matter, and you get punished or rewarded, but they are grittier and much more tenseā¦ larger than life. Same as movies, they live off of tension, rather than realism. Although I agree, that (perceived) realism can play a huge part in that.
Focussing on viscerality over realism overall seems a good approach for NRFTW, from my pov.
Viscerality doesnāt conflict with the ARPG elements, as long as they reward risk taking, enduring and strategy, rather than things that directly lead to victory while realism usually promotes survival aspects, tediousness and unnecessary restrictions, which are usually an enemy of ARPG elements and the ARPG playerbase.
The Game has ARPG elements. It is promoted as an ARPG, there should be ways to build your character similar to an ARPG experience. Too keep the tense atmosphere - Risk taking, enduring and strategy should be rewarded.
To your specific examples:
I personally donāt like strong longterm stat boosts through potions, i prefer actions and short term boosts, as they promote active gameplay and viscerality; Farming potions is also tedious and if they are strong enough and the game hard enough, you will feel you āhave toā, to play optimally
I am somewhat neutral on the weight argument, though it is one of the few interesting dynamics that is directly affected through gearing so maybe its ok to keep it like this. I donāt really like that it takes up so much space on gear because there are two different stats affecting it.
I really like your observation on Focus over time vs Focus on attack, as it forces you to play for time, which also increases tension (as long as there are active threats present). Focus while in combat would be another option, and/or more Focus gain based on how hurt/outnumbered you are.
Hey dude, very well written and you absolutely speak out of my soul. Although I played many arpgs like diablo, poe, last epoch i have to say I totally hate stuff where you like hit one button and the whole screen explodes. I know many many people like that, but my hope for wicked is, that its going the other route like you described. The early stages of the game are absolut fantastic and exactly what I wanted for so LONG! Then comes Crucible and I noted, that everything needed an upgrade and was searching reddit and YouTube a bit. Those echo knight kills with just focus spamming standing still is absolut nonsense to me. I mean must also feel a bit shitty for developers which create encounters, their move sets, attacks and stuff, just to be owned with spamming one button and ignore most of the patterns. I really hope itās not how it is intended by moon studios. Furthermore regarding the argument play how you like and ignore rune spam. Personally I find it hard to not use parts of meta stuff in the end and forcing a hard and grindy time with many death while you know thereās other ways what makes encounters much much easier.
Havenāt really thought about possible solutionsā¦ Put a CD on dmg runes, remove āfocus/health on hitā totally, higher the rune costsā¦ I donāt know.
Iām afraid they are trying to cater for a too big of an audience.
They need to nerf OP stuff faster so we can actually give feedback on how the game plays as intended. Also fix not working affixes.
Dont really like the catering to ranged playstyles as those trivialize the whole enemy AI currently. No idea do they think they can make mobs provide a challenge to full ranged players.
Maybe introduce stuff like that when it can be actually tested instead of just being OP and broken.
I really donāt think they are catering to a wider audience. Im sure that they would like a lot of people to play their game, but if your aim is to go for as wide of an audience as possible, you probably wouldnāt make this kind of game to begin with.
I also fail to see how they would be catering to a bigger audience right now, stuff might be unbalanced but thatās just a natural part of the game being so early in development.
They are testing stuff and building upon the base they have right now, taking in feedback and considering it. Thatās not the same as trying to go for bigger audiences, if thatās what they wanted this wouldnāt be a good way to do it.
I mean just look at the release week, reviews were mixed.
I find the gameplay to me somewhat easy, some monsters do ridiculous damage but otherwise are easy to dodge.
I kind of think the animations need some refining, thereās some dead frames or some frames that make the actions less snappy. Some weapons more than others of course but definitely needs some work.
Either way, I donāt fully agree that Moon Studios is focused on Catering to a wider audience. Sure they want most people to be happy Iām sure, but they have a certain vision for their game and it shows. Because this game is attempting something is pretty unique.
yeah, i often read that term around the forum, but never looked up the translation (no native speaker). Sometimes my words are also a little bit out of place
Looked up the translation:
Like emotionally deeper ā¦
I guess thats the missing term i was looking forā¦
Although reality is always a good starting point and its up to the developers how much they want to abstract from that to reach those higher emotional peaks. On the other hand: Reality also gives you highly emotional moments but they much more rare and must be hardly-earned maybe. Playing a game makes you greedy for that ā¦ so visceral worlds giving you those up and down triggers more rapidly.
When it comes to combat tho i would prefer to start with the naked reality and then decorate it with fantasy aspects gaining more viscerality at the right points.
Agree with no longterm, but i like the āprepare for an adventureā part.
Elden Ring i guess gives you 3min potion timers which is a solid timeframe.
Speaking of Elden Ring and potions. I really liked the self-mixed potion part.
What if wicked got special ingredients for specific effects like āincrease some resistanceā āadd some damage typeā etc. then you got empty bottle formulars for making a small, medium, big bottle with your own combination of effects. Would make the predefined bottles obsolete i guess ā¦ or this gets on top of that. Just thinking.
i guess the equip load attribute is just to balance everything out, but i dont like it having its own attribute. I am with you.
yeah, focus must be something which grows if you are analysing the situation ā¦ more of a passive thing ā¦ preparing for your next attack.
Would love to see special enemy abilities which maybe erase your focus with one hit. I want to loose my focus more often.
Also i think focus and stamina could be merged maybe?
My understanding of Focus and Stamina:
Stamina ā Physical fitness maybe and you are getting exausted if you are doing physical stuff
Focus ā Mental fitness for concentrated attacks/finishing moves?
So if you are gaining focus when out of combat, its the same as stamina and why do we than need the focus layer anyway? Why not all rune attacks cost stamina then?
The last patch#1 changed the normal bow attack to cost stamina instead of focus which is a little bit weird because its a rune you are using, The final point here is āspamming to much stuff leads to exhaustionā. Backing off/doing nothing gives you focus/stamina. More powerful runes cost more focus/stamina. Maybe its better to separate both things for better control but idk.
Funnily enough, i looked up the term as well. Your observations are right on point! And yes we can learn a lot from reality, when it comes to a game feeling real.
I Really like your quote:
It forces you to think about the fantasy aspects as a tool to truly enhance the emotional experience, instead of just being there for its own sake. I think the cool factor should not be ignored completely, but i agree with you on that 100%.
I get where you are coming fromā¦ In that case i would prefer options rather than ressources ā Focus on the choice and preparation aspect, rather then tediousness and farming.
Oh yes, i loved potion mixing in Elden RIng as well. No farming necessary for thoseā¦
A great example for prepare for the adventure executed well is in the witcher series (meditation ādowntimeā to drink your potions, potions with up- and downsides, balde oils for specific enemies). The usecases sometimes where so specific and OPTIONAL that i didnāt even mind to farm for those. It felt really immersive.
I think it is good to have a special ressource to manage for special attacks. Gives you something to work for and a payout. I feel like currently the identity of stamina vs focus seems confused, as Focus somehow tries to be Mana as well, but not really (?).
Maybe:
Stamina for basic and medium active moves (no matter if melee/ranged or magic); Also for buffs that donāt directly affect ressources (give them a long casttime and high focus costs, to make them hard to pull off in combat)
Focus for āultimateā active moves with bigger/special effects and abilities that directly affect ressources (like healing/repairs)
I also think they are not āaimingā for this greater audience, but this game wants to combine so much genres/features e.g. soulslike, arpg, housing, farming, crafting, pvp, co-op. which therefore pulls from lot of different playerbases.
My fear is: Moon wants to reach high. Maybe too high.
Scaling all this different parts to full potential is tough and can lead to overstrain and endless todolists. I guess currently its kind of normal and expected that there is a lot to do forming the real identity of the game.
I hope they have a good captain for the long run, this is getting a marathon
I do think they are aiming for a larger audience than people who play either APRGs and/or soulslikeās. The immersive elements, the story focused narrative appeals to me as a CRPG player. The crafting/farming/furnishing also speaks to me as someone who enjoys immersive survival games. If it was just an ARPG or soulslike I wouldnāt have played this.
I do think that a valid concern can be that they want to appeal to too many playerbases. Like you both @Noktu@Tom point out.
Wide as an ocean but deep as a puddle. āācoughāā ā¦ enchanting ā¦ āācoughāā
Ironically, I think Thomas had mentioned on Twitter about not making a game for everyone. It would have been near release though so grabbing that tweet would take forever with how active he is.
I love how active he is on X though, and actually interacts with his playerbase/is willing to show some insight into the development.
Instead of some CEOs making statements like: āāits a quadruple-A gameāā
Itās like he is grinding +rep by making daily tweets and interacting with his playerbase/Wicked fanbase similar to how you grind +rep in WoW by doing dailies
Every hotfix adding like +100 rep each
I love it, more CEOs should be like him. And from his interactions you can get a good grasp of who he is. For me it is very favorable so far, he has a very clear vision for his game and is fighting for it.
When I bought the game I felt like I bought into a vision and just an EA game.
I am hoping for some more insight to how enchanting is gonna work out in the future though.
I couldnāt agree more. His activity on Twitter is probably one of the main reasons I actually have hope in the game. Iāve never experienced a CEO interacting on this level with the players before, the closest is probably the CEO of Arrowhead but itās still not on this level.
Thomas has a strong vision in his head of where he wants this game to be and I donāt think itās meant to be a game for everyone in the sense that every aspect should be approachable for every person. I think he just wants a little bit of everything and players pick and choose what they prefer.
He already said if you donāt like Crucible, thatās fine because itās not the only endgame content they want to offer. They really intend to have a variety of things in the game.
And I found the post of his that goes deeper into that!
