Monk armor/gauntlet archetype needs review (buffs)

The monk fantasy archetype as it currently exists in game has several pain points:

1- Its iconic monk armor, the one Illarya wears (Empty Mind, Empty Fist, Empty Step set pieces; currently no glove piece exists for this set in-game), is rather abysmally cloth armor.

Put plainly, cloth armor for a melee playstyle sucks big time. The player character already has abysmal baseline poise that gets you ragdolled by most enemies in the game.

The extra resistances from cloth armor are useless because with exalting and current ring and armor upgrade values, you can reach the 70% cap on all elements with full mesh armor instead.

For reference, my armor has all “10% reduced damage taken based on durability)” for a total 40% added DR, and you are still wet toilet paper on cloth at pestilence lv4, and even mesh can have a hard time with more damage taken increase affixes in pestilence.

The difference is that mesh armor also grants you 50% physical DR, the most important DR in the game as that is the damage type most enemies, including bosses, apply. Cloth nets you 29% DR at a fully upgraded cloth set.

You are taking double the damage from enemies just by wearing cloth, and this is a serious problem against elite goliath enemies, minibosses, and certain bosses like Echo Knight and Darak who have rather high baseline melee damage(Warrick also does, but less extremely so).

At plague lv4, with enemy 50% stagger resistance, 30% extra health and multiple damage intake increase affixes to the player usually summing up to 30-45% extra damage taken, the game becomes unplayable for a cloth wearing monk at pestilence lv4, you are getting ragdolled and shredded, especially in multienemy fights where you can no longer stagger to control enemy groups and they hit like a freight train.

2- For a melee archetype that has rather low weapon reach and long attack animation commit strings, the archetype has almost nonexistent poise. It’s terrible.

Even using a full mesh set with the highest level Poise flask, I was getting chain stagger locked just by taking a single hit from most enemies that were not minor nith/gloam. Every single goliath enemy, False Remnant, monstrosity, giant, bear, miniboss and especially the bosses immediately staggered you in one hit at full mesh armor with poise flask on at pestilence lv4.

The Balak Taw archer chain firing arrows and dashing back constantly while firing arrows was chain staggering through mesh as well.

So you are an archetype made of toilet paper if you wear your intended fantasy set, and even if you wear mesh to compensate and be tankier, you are still significantly vulnerable with little upside compared to other melee builds.

This is using the 10% lifesteal gem on weapon with 60% increased healing from armor affixes, the survival is still bad for how exposed the playstyle is.

3- The stagger on gauntlets is abysmal. I can use a 125 focus rune attack like Buster Rift (the 125 focus version of Tremor Wave) aoe and it will not stagger a false remnant in the Crucible, let alone pestilence lv4 mobs with the 50% stagger resistance affix. Meanwhile on any caster build of any element or some curved sword or mace/greataxe/greatsword builds, staggering through the 50% resistance affix is significantly easier.

It seems really odd that all blunt weapons get large stagger values and poise damage while the glass cannon short range melee build dealing blunt damage with fists and kicks has almost nonexistant stagger.

The lack of stagger with short reach and long exposure through long attack chains then leads to lack of ability to control mob groups or stagger bosses to trigger effects like backstab or gear affixes related to staggering or crucible echoes that rely on stagger.

If the archetype is gonna lack meaningful CC and have low reach, then it needs to be compensated with far better self sustain through much better poise and significantly greater damage output to balance the risk vs. reward ratio.

4- The majority of rune attacks involving kicks and punch shockwaves have long windups and no enemy tracking.

This makes rune attacks like flying dragon kick horribly unreliable and not worth using outside a staggered enemy because the windup is such that it will never land most of the follow up kick animations on enemies since enemy AI tends to sidestep and evade or even reposition very frequently while under attack or when attacking themselves. The kick rune attacks require the enemy be completely stationary for a while to land its hits.

Buster Rift is another big offender because it relies on two hits, first the line shockwave aoe followed by a beam line aoe. The beam line aoe has enough delay after the shockwave that it will often whiff non-staggered enemies.

And this is a real issue with the archetype having such low stagger output, because with an inability to stagger reliably, most of its rune attack kit is really low value and unreliable.

5- A lot of these ugly warts with the archetype and its runes/weapons are being covered up by how OP Ring of Determination is as well as % damage stacking. If you stack 20% extra damage from ring of broken promises, with 30% extra rune damage from runic ring, with another 20-40% worth of damage increase affixes on gear (70-90% extra damage done), you can still cheese and one shot enemies through rune attack spam, but this is build agnostic.

Unfortunately, when a lot of this cheese gets patched up (as it should, rune attacks should not be too infrequent but they should also not be spammable; it should take a regular attack chain completed to gain 75-100 focus, so 2 attack chains for one powerful rune attack), the flaws and glaring weaknesses of the archetype will surface.

You won’t be able to burst enemies from ranged safety anymore or get massive life drain from spamming high damage rune attacks, fights will drag out, and you’ll have to do actual combat and boss choreography, where the severe survival gaps and lack of poise and stagger on a mediocre damage build will become an evident handicap.

6- Reconsider the 100% focus lost on focus use and 50% stagger resistance affixes on pestilence. Especially the 100% focus lost. What this affix does is it effectively prohibits you from using either channeled spells or lower cost focus rune attacks because it is not worth using a 50 focus spirit burst that does 1/4 the damage of a Buster Rift but drains all your focus just the same.

Certain runes are also rendered unusable, like Heal Aura immediately getting interrupted as the focus is drained at once in a single tick, and the Channel rune to sacrifice HP for focus has you just waste hp because the focus is completely drained out just as you generate it as it’s considered a focus spell even though it uses health.

It’s just a horrid affix, and it encourages spamming fish food for the focus generation to be able to function against massively tankier and more damaging enemies at pestilence lv4.

This shows you don’t know how to build, and I’m not going to bother reading the rest.

Proof:

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7- Adding that a lot of gauntlet weapons are missing charged attacks, and gear affixes still have a lot of affixes that have a charged attack as a conditional.

One more to the bin of feedback for the monk archetype.

Before watching your guide I knew it was going to be one of those “just don’t get hit” builds, and I was right.
You could have just said that cloth is not for beginners, instead of being an arrogant prick.

Do yourself a favor, right click his name, and add him to ignore. He’s not a normal person. You’ll have a more pleasant time sitting on a cactus than talking to someone like him.

He doesn’t get the message either, he went to the official discord and pinged emotes through Ignore, so I just blocked him.

People like that who talk to strangers that way are malignant narcissists and nothing good comes out of prolonged exchange with them.

Gountlets have a few issues that make using the weapon type not as enjoyable.
The most critical one you mentioned under point 2. Gauntlets will sometimes miss an enemy nearby (which must be a bug) as well as long animations on attacks. While each attack might come out fast, since you are mostly hitting two times the total animation duration/animation lock seems too long and you will get punished a lot. Dual Daggers suffer to an extent from the same issues.

Cloth is cloth and makes you not as durable. The idea is to rely on swift dodges from light weight and use hit & run tactics. What stands in the way are the animation locks from gauntlets, not the other stuff.

What are you talking about? I literally got hit 5 times in a row by Echo Knight. The video is literally titled FOR BEGINNERS and I’m an arrogant prick?

I specifically say in the guide that you CAN get hit and you’ll be tanky enough to survive.

Where in the video do I say don’t get hit?

This snowflake who doesn’t know how to build or play the game has been crying since Breach release to make the game easier. Give them more damage. Give this more armour. And this is the continuation of their idiotic rants because they don’t want to learn anything.

Do yourself a favour, actually watch the video before you talk shit. Or don’t, I don’t need or care about your views. I leave it here for people with above average IQ to actually see the bullshit that comes out of this loser who can’t play the game with this much defensive stats:

The proof is in the pudding, go to 10:27 where I fight standing in the fire from the Witch and get hit multiple times by the other mobs. Then go to 17:30.

His entire rant in non-sense that comes from his lack of understanding of core game mechanics while being under the delusion that he’s somewhat of a decent player or that he understands game design as well he is familiar with female anatomy. The only thing he knows how to play is casting spells from the safety and he thinks that needs to translate to every archetype and weapon style. To balance the game around scrubs like him, is the reason for the current end game state where every build literally becomes the same and everyone is looking for exact same affixes.

These people are literally bad for the game and their loud mouth knows no boundaries, and I’ll be damned if I were to sit idol while they keep spreading their non-sense to further and further degrade the integrity of what’s left of combat in this game.

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Nothing wrong with Cloth bud. In a cloth setup, you have about 25% Physical Defense. In a mostly Mesh setup, you have about 49-51% Physical Defense. In mostly Plate, you have around 61% Physical Defense.

Your elemental defense is usually at cap/70% easily with cloth or mesh/cloth mix.

Generally if you’re wearing lighter gear, your play style would involve not taking a ton of physical damage to the face. Evasion, distance, parrying, etc.

You could also technically re-add another 20% Physical via gems to your cloth/light gear. But there are many ways to balance intake and recovery if you are determined to wear a light setup. You can even add poise via enchantments and gems if getting staggered is a concern. The fault of not building properly to suit, rests solely on the player.

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Disagree.

There’s this thing called opportunity cost and balance.

If I can achieve nearly double the DR and still cap resistances by exalting gear in mesh, there’s absolutely no point to cloth armor unless you balance light dodge rolls to be significantly better than medium dodge roll, which it isn’t (and if we disagree here, we won’t agree on much else, we are operating on different perceptions entirely).

The fact is, long animation commits on long attack chains, which the gauntlets have, and especially on kick rune attacks, means you will catch stray hits at some point. This becomes even more probable on multienemy fights.

Having double the physical DR gives you immensely higher effective health, especially because the crushing majority of damage in this game is physical.

Even if they somehow patch nerfed mesh and plate to be unable to to go above 35% elemental resistances at exalted (so cloth takes double physical but others take double elemental damage), they’d still be better than cloth for the simple fact that most damage is physical as of now.

Your suggestion to slot gems to shore up the physical DR gap forgets you now assume a deficit on the other gem effects you would have otherwise had, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WEARING CLOTH.

That 5% DR gem you are slotting is replacing a health/stamina/focus gain gem that you otherwise get on other armor classes.

Cloth armor is a handicap armor. It’s OK when it’s designed for ranged archetypes like mages who are designed to operate from range with the upcoming patch.

But there is no reason why the monk themed set should be classed as cloth when they could move it up to leather category.

This might all be an academic discussion depending on the job system overhaul and upcoming class perks making the discussion pointless, but I posted it for Thomas and his team to review.

This entire non-sensical rant belongs in the garbage with the poster that boasts a double digit IQ.

You do not have to go all cloth, all mesh, all plate etc bruh. You can mix an match as you need or suits your setup.

I put zero points into equip load, because I use blink as my dodge. Hell even when I don;t use blink I don’t put any points into equip load. But 4 mesh would put me into encumbered; so 3x Mesh and Leather or Cloth pants puts me in a good place.

On my Ranger I am using a Medium shield or a Needle Spear, which is heavier. So mixing some lighter equipment helps keep me within the limit I need.

If light gear did not exist, you would not be able to craft your weight without re-specs. I have about 3-4 different build play style setups, and none of them require respecs. Just flipping gear around. Having 4 different weight gear allows you to configure multiple setups easily.

Even cosmetically the best looking outfits are a mix of gear weights.

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I do not have to, but like it’s mentioned in your post, as well as my original post, it’s a matter of taste. You think a mix of armor looks best. That’s subjective. I prefer a cohesive armor set that’s part of the same set and theme, and further than that, for my monk I want to use the monk transmog, which is restricted to that one cloth set that Illaria uses.

This post was to highlight that the game makes you choose between your preferred class fantasy and flavor and an optimal setup, which you have mentioned by using a mix of mesh and leather/cloth.

Respecs are a negligible cost in endgame, so I do not take that argument with much weight.

If transmog existed and they allowed transmog across weight categories, I wouldn’t care. I’d use the good mesh set and just copy the appearance of the cloth monk set. But that doesn’t exist.

Even if they implemented transmog, it does not remove the criticism of a full cloth set being objectively inferior to any alternative mix of armor. That needs to be fixed.

They could make cloth armor and leather have gradient bonuses to focus gain and stamina recovery to compensate for their lack of meaningful DR advantage and poise.

Pants and gloves hardly matter in the overall look of the character; body and head have the most prominent features.

If Moon intends to do any PvP content in the future, they cannot have cross-category transmogs, because it would obscure euipment choices.

They can just disable transmog in PvP.

A game should not be limited by a format a minority of people participate in. And for online RPGs, PvP has always been a niche activity. It’s true in WoW, true in FFXIV, true in GW2, true in Diablo.

And disagree about pants. They do make a sizable difference in looks.

Except Pantler’s Trouser :grinning_face:. I swear the “boots” look is the best in the game because the legs don’t look all skinny and weird. Works with so many outfits universally.

But yea in game-view generally its Body/Helm. I don’t think the visual of armor will matter much in PvP as much as the weapon/off-hand.

It seems this discussion about Monk gear has a purely subjective nature so that I will excuse myself from here.

It’s not subjective, it was started by a goon who doesn’t understand basic game mechanics and yet he’s entitled to write an entire essays which in reality reflects only his lack of understanding and ability to play a class based on the given equipment and restrictions.

This is the common malfunction with most people who try to play “their” way and neglect how the game was designed to be played by the developers. They assume that the devs don’t know what they’re doing so they think they can do it better and their rants usually boils down to buffing this and that so it can mask their inaptitude.

There is not “monk gear” in the game. Just because Illaria is wearing a set, it doesn’t mean you should use it create YOUR “monk gear” fantasy. It’s a full cloth set and cloth is generally not meant to be played by melee classes. However, the game gives you the ability to make it work, even if you suck at the game and I have shown it practice rather than making a rant here asking for yet another class/gearset to broken at the request of garbage players with a loud mouth.