First Preview of our Class System

I think it’s mind boggling that their solution to players not spending their attributes correctly was a full rework of the entire system, instead of doing a proper tutorial for new players.

They could have spent their resources on making armor sets that actually corresponded to class archetypes with meaningful bonuses. You know give cloth armor X bonus stats to fire damage. Give cloth armor Y bonus stats to INT, and classes would emerge organically out of the attribute system.

Oh well, what do I know, I’m not a developer.

Also this:

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I much prefer the current free stat system, w/ some rework maybe, either allowing for more clear path to respec, better in-game info about how it works (in this game specifically), or whatever… I didn’t have much problem w/ this and is probably the reason I don’t dislike it… but since a lot of players seem to have issues, it indicates they either lack the (assumed to be there) knowledge, or the system itself is flawed beyond the most intuitive path (again, for this game particularly), both which are bad design choices if one is aiming for popularity… :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Having so many classes restricting gameplay to a specific path seems like a downgrade to me. What it would actually be refreshing is:

A)Make weapon swing speed and weight actually matter in terms of poise damage and overall damage. Right now there are some standout weapons and others that are so and so purely on the fact that some have blindingly fast combos and others not. For example the governor’s sword that is an amazing weapon by all means weighs the same as many one-hand axes but is way weaker in terms of damage. In this game weapons with their changeable runes and distinct move-sets are actually acting as a sorts-of-class, so it would be better to make all weapons fun and practical to use instead of forcing people to use the best out of each type.

B)Instead of having classes for each weapon people should have incentives to use more cumbersome weapons. Using two-handed swords for example punishes players with lower overall damage, defense and mobility than the use of single-handed swords,axes or clubs combined with a shield. On the same note I would prefer for shields to be able to accommodate utility runes such as resistances, healing etc. and leave the character slot open for active skills. Those using two-handed weapons could equip a defensive equipment replacing the medium and large shields (bracers or small bucklers) so as to gain the enchantments that a shield can get without the large defense bonus.

C)Adding a skill-tree with few attribute based active and more passive skills would be a good addition. For example a high-strength character could get a passive bonus to swinging speed of two-handed, less stamina cost when two-handing, area effects with splash damage for charged attacks, reduced weight for plate armor or medium/large shields. Faith could give skills leading to big bonuses in heal skills, health gain when damaging enemies, elemental resistance and damage reflection, mesh armor encumbrance, damage to plague enemies etc. . Intelligence (already overpowered) should give skills related to elemental damage, focus expenditure and elemental build-up. Dexterity could boost critical chance, increase running and walking speed as well as dodge distance, invulnerability frames when dodging, better parry bonuses etc.

D)There is nothing wrong with adding attribute requirements in order to use armor types effectively. For example if you were to implement set effects on a magician armor (planewalker, seeker etc.) set my dumb full-strength warrior shouldn’t be able to gain said effects even when wearing the armor.

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I’m equally down for that!

And if im using plate body, mesh pants, leather hat, cloth gloves and sabre/one-handed cuerved sword? Who am I according to this table?

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I prefer to keep the current system as an alternative way to play the game instead of only having 1 system, just make it the players choice of selecting what settings a new realm should be created with, i even think they could keep the old crucible as an alternative where loot dropped, i still miss the old crucible yep but i also like the current.

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Hi Thomas. Been a fan of moon studio games since Ori 1 and i’m following (and playing) Wicked too and really enjoying it :wink:

I’m really eager to test this class system, but something comes to my mind : with a so flexible class system, how would you maintain the motivation to reroll a new character?

I mean, if one character can test everything, apart from new starting content etc, you won’t ever want to reroll no? I’m asking this because i’m the kind of player (and i’m not alone i think ^^) that likes to create rerolls to “have the adventure again from another pov”.

What do you think?

There is still the part of just the pure amount of time until you have everything unlocked or even just wanting to replay the game. But on a new character, maybe trying a class from scratch without the traits from other classes.

The limitation is just on us there. I mean let’s say Necromancer which we know releases after 1.0 “Oh Necromancer releases with 1.1 I could go with my full character that I want everything on directly” or “Oh I will test the Necromancer on a fully new character from the start! Only leveling it on main after I finished it!”

Another thing can be simply new playthroughs on new chars with different future Realm modifiers. You can get the new perspective you seek, starting a new character will always be different. Even if you use the same route as before the items you may get could be quite different.

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Mystic has me HYPED!

I believe it is necessary to clearly define the goals and purpose behind transitioning from an attribute-based system to a class-based system, and to communicate this clearly to players as well. Internally, the development team should also have this clearly articulated (and I assume they probably do). While I personally agree with moving toward a class system, I am genuinely concerned about whether this transition is being pursued with the same sense of underlying problem awareness that I have.

My biggest concern is that the core issue in the current version of the game lies not in character power itself, but in the failure of the system to properly constrain and design min-maxing structures. As can be seen even from YouTube videos, endgame content such as the Echo Knights is being overwhelmingly trivialized by a handful of “cheese” builds.

In my own experience, my first character used a greatsword and reached level 30. Despite having a full set of gems and only modest upgrade levels on gloves and helmet (around +12 to +15), I failed the first Echo Knight stage multiple times. In contrast, my third character, built around a mage concept, was able to easily clear the same content at around level 10 by simply kiting and attacking safely from long range.

Based on both my own play experience and watching streamers, it is also clear that for players unfamiliar with the game, the current attribute system is extremely difficult and unintuitive in the early stages. This becomes especially problematic around the level 20 range, where weapon attribute requirements suddenly change and drastically alter the gameplay situation. This is not a healthy design.

I am assuming (and sincerely hoping) that multiplayer content will be added and expanded in the future. However, if the game continues in its current state, severe balance collapse seems inevitable. Countless examples from other games show that even a 5–10% DPS difference can lead to absolute and rigid class disparities.

If the development team is considering the transition to a class system with these concerns in mind, I believe that is a very positive sign. However, if not, I strongly urge the team to reconsider and adopt this problem awareness as soon as possible. If the class system is introduced merely because it “looks better” on the surface or because it improves accessibility for beginners, it will almost certainly lead to major problems down the line.

I’m excited to see classes implemented. I’m just hoping the rogue class switches from cloth to leather for the armor type.

If nobody posted those videos while game is in EA it would be alot harder to balance the game.

However every game has “cheese” builds wether we like it or not

(sorry i dont like to use the word cheese at all its so negative it just put games in a serious position that takes away all the fun, time and effort put into making all kinds of builds)

i dont hate builds that one shot but i also dont use them because that is not what i seek in arpgs or hack n slash.

I hope they take away all focus gain on parry because it should be an enchantment just like how dodge roll have a really wide variety of enchantments for a dodge roll build..

I think the armor type is just a recommendation nothing more hopefully :innocent:

If this game were a purely single-player experience, and its goal was simply a straightforward hack-and-slash, then your point would be valid. Games with open choices, diverse experiences, and plenty of “discovery elements” tend to be more engaging. However, many ARPGs that attempted such open-ended design have made significant mistakes at critical points.

NRFTW is designed with multiplayer in mind, and the broader the variety of player choices and user base it assumes, paradoxically, the more regulated the freedom of choice must be. Limiting choices in a controlled way is actually the correct approach to pursue maximal diversity in a stable manner.

For example, in Monster Hunter, time attacks are a key part of endgame content. Yet, as I mentioned earlier, a mere 5% difference in DPS can create a situation akin to “weapon discrimination.” Every game has its own combat rules, but some players exploit abnormal builds that go beyond min-maxing and flaunt them as if they were legitimate cheats. This kind of behavior is not positive even in single-player games. Customization should allow meaningful variation, but it must remain within established rules.

In the current version of Wicked, balance disparities are already extreme when measured simply by weapon performance. This reflects recurring issues seen in Souls-like combat systems from Dark Souls onward. In Wicked, these problems need to be actively addressed. For instance, rapiers and magic/ranged attacks still provide abnormally strong tactics, even against Wicked’s monsters that are highly aggressive and numerically superior.

If PvP is introduced, I am certain similar balance anomalies will emerge, just as seen in Dark Souls or Elden Ring, 100% guaranteed. Whether in PvP or PvE, if the Souls-like system remains central to Wicked’s design philosophy, addressing this issue is not optional, it is a necessary, unavoidable challenge.

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Updated 2026-02-10

Hey @thomasmahler,

I absolutely love No Rest for the Wicked. What Moon Studios has already achieved in preview is nothing short of remarkable, and a long-time dream come true.

Problem FFT Jobs-Inspired System Seeks To Solve (As I Understand It):

The current combat implementation, which I love, (high build diversity and high enemy difficulty) makes build experimentation unfeasible after attribute commitment with the current progression system.

Problem With Role-Based Class System Solution (In My Opinion):

A role-based class system would introduce arbitrary restriction, which undermines Wicked’s existing strengths: player freedom (emergent builds), meaningful progression (commitment-based integration of armor, weapons, and skills), and competence-anchored mastery (learning weapon and enemy movesets, not just stat boosting).

Proposed Alternative (With Love):

  • Classes remain exclusive to weapons and armor (no role-based restrictions)

  • Remove generic XP entirely (health, stamina, and focus have fixed caps - progression is gear/skill/knowledge-based)

  • Enemy difficulty generally scales to player’s current build state (with floor), not lifetime XP accumulation (not adaptive difficulty - baseline challenge remains)

  • Multiplayer scaling uses average or floor build state (prevents carrying)

  • Regions still have overall difficulty floors and scaling sub-region floors (difficulty remains world-anchored)

  • Drop quality and XP quantity still scale with enemy difficulty (prevents progression farming)

I believe this would preserve Wicked’s identity while removing the structural barrier to build experimentation.

Thank you so much for your time and for making this incredible game.

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Sounds interesting.

But I must admit. As one who loves playing deprived in DS games etc.
I like the system that is now.

Any possibility to just have a free mode system which is current system? I like to put in stats on my own and build my character from literal scratch like that.

I see some people want the game to constant scale to you, I disagree. I want to be powerful. Games today with infinite scaling dont feel like there is any progression anymore. As it is now it scales up to a certain point, thats fine.

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What the hell ??? Some classes (actualy) don’t need focus, others don’t need life, others don’t need energy…. This kind of idea just completely removed players choices on how we wan’t to build our character….

Enemy scaling isn’t interesting, if anytime we upgrade our build, enemies followed up, we never feels the improvement… take a look at Oblivion with lvl scaling, that sucks. I prefere to get a based hard game, that become easier with my character progression (the current system is fine).

We always have to chose if we wan’t a slow and tanky or fast glass canon one… depending on our preferences.

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Btw I don’t like this class system, it’s to restrictiv : you have to get “greatsword and plate” what if i wan’t to use plate with staff ? Or greatsword with cloth and full energy shield bonnuses, full focus and no life ?

Plus, how many time do it take to full mastery any weapons ? If a wan’t to use a new weapon at lvl50, do i need to practice 1/2/10/30 hours to get maxed ? To fast and it’s irrevelant, to long and it’ll be boring… attribute leaves players the choice, with some hours of farming we can easly respec….

Hi @Cas_plays,

I feel you. I was envisioning a system that avoids two failure modes: infinite enemy scaling (no sense of progression) and infinite stat increase (no meaningful combat skill required to progress). I think Monster Hunter strikes this balance perfectly but I was trying to think of something that would fit Wicked’s vision.

I see Wicked as sitting right in the middle between Dark Souls and Monster Hunter. I like that MH anchors classes to weapons, not roles, as this gives the player complete freedom to play however they want at any time. That said, I like the idea of also having at least three distinct armor classes in Wicked to give even more play variety. This would anchor progression in gear and player skill, ideally making loot more meaningful (no stat farming).

I agree that enemies should only scale to a certain point (region and sub-region based).

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