Sorry for the silly reply, but i can’t wait to tell my dnd DM that i want to respecc my bard into a Barbarian after my group finds a big sword, because “respeccing and minmaxing in rpgs is what it’s all about”
on a slightly more serious note, rpg as role playing game is about creating and developing a character, respeccing would be the antithesis to that.
I’m 45 hours into the game right now, so we have pretty much the same playtime. However, I have some disagreements with what you said:
I’m also a veteran of soulslikes, and a somewhat experienced player of ARPGs, and I agree with this. Difficulty is fine right now. The Crucible is the only actually hard place in the game, but it’s supposed to be so.
I agree with the things you said about combat here, and also when it comes to stamina, backstabs, and parries. However…
I will have to disagree here. I have one medium chest literally full of 20x stacks of food. I also have another chest that is half full of food. Making food in this game is easy, and it’s part of the gameplay. Yes, a healing flask wouldn’t break the balance of combat, but it would undermine the importance of the cooking system. If you don’t want to cook, you can invest in life steal/leech builds, which offer the alternative gameplay style you want.
I disagree with pretty much everything you said here. Your opinion is basically: “It’s not realistic to have this stat requirements in a weapon”. This game is not supposed to be realistic. And it is also not realistic at all: cartoony graphics, a plague that turns you into weird monsters instead of just killing you, comically large arms… This game is a dark fantasy cartoon arcade RPG. Ditch your realistic sense and embrace the cartoony arcade feeling of it. That is the intended vision of the game. I know it’s hard to let go of something familiar (souls mechanics), but embracing new things is part of what makes life and gaming great.
As this person said: the stats in the items are so that, whatever your build is, you should have plenty of options. If you take a look at the descriptions of stats, they only mention that it will scale the weapon bonus for weapons of that attribute. There’s nothing else to it. It may appear as random, but there’s meaning behind it: every staff uses intelligence, every bow uses dexterity, rapiers and daggers also use dexterity, and most of heavy two-handed weapons will use strength as their primary stat requirement. And the outliers? Just like the Etched Yatagan, they exist so that every build has options. The Shattered Sun, a two-handed greatsword, I found was a very nice surprise to my STR/INT build, which I had thought it would be locked into only using curved swords.
The high stats are also explained easily: a weapon that requires 42 of a stat is a tier 3 weapon with only one stat requirement. Weapons that require two stats of 26 are also tier 3 weapons. If you paid attention to it, you’d see that weapons don’t have level requirements like armor, instead, they have stat requirements. Yes, they’re high to guarantee that a low level character won’t use a tier 3 weapon unless they have made drastic compromises (as in: not investing in stamina, equip load…). It all balances itself out.
The biggest problem with wanting games to be realistic, is that real life is not balanced, much to the contrary. If all medieval games were realistic when it comes to gear, we should all be running around with spears, as they are the superior weapon. That cool greatsword people often fantasise about? Utterly a stupid deranged idea in a realistic setting.
100% agree with this. Early game should drop more weapons and armor, and we should have a higher variety. Instead of making scaling realistic, having more options from the get go would nullify the pain points that are coming with creating a character and not knowing where to invest your stat points at first. To give myself as an example, I only found swords and one-handed daggers for the whole beggining of the game until Warrick.
All of the complaints here are mostly justified. The UI is basic, and it shows preference for aesthetics over function, which is generally not a good thing at all when it comes to UI. A UI revamp should be, in my opinion, their first priority right now.
I’ll talk about this two things together: wait timers and pause.
This game is going to be a multiplayer game soon. You may not play it as a multiplayer game, but that is, honestly, a you problem. Their vision for this game is clearly a multiplayer soulsy-ARPG. I’d hazard a guess that the only reason the game is currently not multiplayer is simply because they decided to first deal with feedback specifically about the game, and leave to deal with networking/multiplayer feedback and problems after the major feedback points with the game have been addressed. The whole multiplayer side is probably already done if they’re confident enough to make and announce it as the next thing they’re going to release on their roadmap.
On this topic, a lot of the balancing changes they made in the last few days are also, probably, things they had already discussed previously, and were waiting for massive feedback to work on it. It’s easier to let people play something in its hardest state first, and then lower the difficulty, then the opposite. I’d be willing to bet that there was at least this one person that said: “Ha! I knew they were going to complain about durability. Told y’all.”
Yes, please.
Also yes, please.
Also yes. But I haven’t had this exact problem that much. My biggest complaint is to do with the platforming itself, which is very punishing. But I also don’t think we need the teleporting system you talked about. Better prediction on platforming jumps, a slighly longer jump, and a better and more forgiving mantling system should probably fix it.
rpg as role playing game in the sense of current game as well as the games developers tryed to look at for design ideas is actually a game about systems and their interactions with each other far more than a game about roleplaying itself. Systems that allow players to solve problems in a certain way and then solve it more efficiently with another system that is harder to obtain, making your first solution waste of allocated resources and then relocating those resources to solve another problem instead. I would know, I am playing rpgs ever since I was 6 years old. And I am playing soulslikes for past couple of years as well. This is not DnD game, its not meant to be a DnD game. This is soulslike arpg.
Problem is not difficulty of making food, problem is the game decisions player makes because of that very food.
I iterrated on his system, u should probably wanna check that reply, it still does what u said u wanna have in the game, and far better mind you, which I totally agree should be part of the game, but it makes far more sense than current system which keeps dropping u weapon typed you would like to use but cannot because of weird stat requirements. This happened to me as well and its very annoying:
Out of 5 weapons of the weapon type I am the most interested in, I could not use 3 because of their random scalling. And punishing me and making me respec for not knowing the game would just be adding salt to the wound. Anyways my solution would be:
and also:
My criticism of the stats is not a realism argument. That may be one aspect of it, but I see it more as what makes sense to the player. My main argument is that I find the high stat gates too restrictive on build variety and far too specific. The example I gave with the 22, 22 str faith sword was that this weapon dropped early in the game for me in a level 11 zone and I had to dedicate every level since acquiring to use it. By that point, I was already into the endgame and basically had not improved my character at all besides a small damage upgrade from str scaling. If this is an endgame weapon, why did it not drop in the endgame?
“If you paid attention to it, you’d see that weapons don’t have level requirements like armor, instead, they have stat requirements.” This is exactly what I am criticising. I think the current stat requirements are far too restrictive and too limiting on the players’ choices. Maybe this is just for early access as we only have have one chapter at the moment, but I felt like most of the weapons I was collecting were unusable without me dumping all of my levels into the required stats ignoring other stats. Or they were of weapons that had dual stat requirements for a build that I was not intending to go down.
My argument about stats not making sense MOSTLY has nothing to do with realism, but what a player would expect from a weapon. If it’s slow mainly str, fast mainly dex and magical mostly int or faith. The only realism point was that I don’t like int only weapons and think they should offer some scaling and requirement in dex/str as they are a melee weapon. Also, just because something is cartoony, doesn’t mean you throw all realism out the window. Realism is not the same thing as reality. I am not advocating for a lot of realism in an RPG, I am advocating for the stats to make sense.
It does not make any sense to me for “Chipped Daggers” to require 16 strength and dexterity. These weapons are essentially an upgrade over the brothers keepers as they are of the same weapon type and deal more damage. Daggers deal low damage per-hit but hit very fast and frequently so should primarily be associated with dex. A dex player that enjoys these weapons would most likely be annoyed at this as they now can’t use an upgraded weapon without having to level a stat that is not part of their intended build. With RNG loot they may have to wait a long time to find a better weapon to use. This happened to me for a different weapon and I gave in and levelled a stat that is now useless to me. I am fine with this weapon having a strength stat associated as well, but not equalling the dexterity stat. If it it was around ~12 I would be much happier with it and the dex could be raised to create a requirement.
Many weapons of the same type that I found and wanted to use were locked out of my build for seemingly arbitrary reasons. This became very frustrating and I felt my build variety was being heavily restricted. There may very well have been plenty of weapons that were inline with my build, but because of the nature of RNG loot I did not fine many.
As for the food argument, I can see in that screenshot you are level 25 and well into the endgame. My concern is primarily about running out of food in the midgame where you do not have a lot of money available to you to buy lots of food from the Chef and wouldn’t have stockpiled a lot of ingredients. So if they are to reach a difficult boss and run out I do not want that player to be forced to farm. An estus system isn’t the only solution to this, but just a suggestion. Dark Souls 1 has one of the best healing systems in any game I’ve played, this game is obviously going down a different path, I do not want to undermine that, I just don’t want to have to deal with the frustration of farming like I have done with blood vials in Bloodborne. I think one of the biggest problems I have with the cooking system is that some ingredients are required for too many recipes. I often have many crabs and mushrooms stockpiled but no herbs to make meals. Maybe if this was changed it would help alleviate the issue for early-midgame?
“This game is going to be a multiplayer game soon” No, this game is going to be a multiplayer CO-OP game with some PvP as well. This is not the same as an always online ARPG or MMO like Diablo 4 where you constantly encounter other players.
Quote from their Early Access section on Steam:
Upcoming features that will be included prior to 1.0 release include:
Multiplayer: 4 player co-op
Multiplayer: PVP
And that is optional co-op. I hope that at no point you will be required to play online with other players. If the game is made always online I will be very upset, but they have said that they are working on pause so I do not believe that this will be the case.
My 1.0 time, I imagine, is going to be very similar to my Early Access time, me playing the game offline in singleplayer whilst talking about the game with my friends. Maybe doing the occasional crucible run together or a co-op second playthrough. There is no reason why an offline game session cannot include a pause button. FromSoft should absolutely include it for offline Souls and Elden Ring players and it is baffling to me that they haven’t already.
EDIT: I also read @IAmGrimbo 's point about damage types and stats that he mentioned in a previous reply and think that that is a very interesting idea.
EDIT 2:
Yes the more I think about this the more I am in disagreement with my initial point. My frustration and bias I have against the Souls games’ platforming definitely clouded some of my reasoning here. I do however still think that the platforming is not in a good place right now and needs some work.
At level 11 you had 10 level ups, that’s 30 stat points. You need 24 points to be able to use that weapon. It sounds unbalanced, but it actually isn’t. It’s all about choice: do you want to invest solely and exclusively on damage? Or do you want survivability? In the second case, forget about being on the bleeding edge of weapons.
“Ah, but how am I supposed to know which weapon I’m going to play?” You don’t need to. Every weapon in this game seems to be forever upgradable. I was level 9 when I let go of my blood-rusted sword that was literally the first weapon I got. I was level 20 when I dropped the shamshir you can buy at Fillmore for a Cerulean Blade I found inside the crucible.
Yes. We’re most likely less than halfway to 1.0 in content right now. I’m guessing that max level will probably be 60, going all the way up to at least tier 5 gear. It’s VERY early game right now. And yes, most of the weapons will be useless to you. It’s the exact same for ARPGs and Souls-likes. Think about it: how many Katanas can you get in Elden Ring before Caelid? And after that, how many Katanas are exclusively DEX based weapons? Most weapons you get on an ARPG and on a Souls like are things you’re not going to use. But this game has randomized loot, so you can and should just sell anything that is not for your build right now. Or, better, you should just extract the runes and you can have the skill of that weapon in any other weapon of your choice. I have a medium chest full of runes of all types in my house. Plus a small chest full of infusing gems. My current weapons is a white Cerulean Blade tailor made by me: 4 gens and 4 runes of my choice.
Your expectations are mostly based on realism: “What makes sense”. And are biased because of other games. Just let go. This game is not a souls like, and it’s also not an ARPG. It’s trying to be its own thing.
They are not throwing all of the realism away. Most weapons scaling follows traditional logic. As I said: bows always use dex, staffs always use int, most two-handed weapons use str. There are some outliers, yes, but not everything needs to “make sense”. That’s the point you’re missing.
They’re not an upgrade. They’re another weapon that you can choose from. The upgrade for brother’s keepers is the upgraded tier 2 version of that weapon you can get from upgrading it at Fillmore’s. Talking about my own experience: the shamshir and the cerulean blade are both one-handed curved blades that scale with STR and INT, and their movesets are completely different. The cerulean blade is not an upgrade from the shamshir, it’s a different weapon in the same category. The only reason why I dropped my blue Shamshir for the Cerulean blade was because the mats I needed to upgrade the shamshir was a bear paw and silver ingot, and I was not getting those. But this is another problem.
The same type of weapon doesn’t mean anything in this game. Think of it like elden ring: the uchigatana and the moon veil are both katanas, but the moon veil has an INT requirement of 23, making it a very unlikely weapon for katana builds. It’s technically the same type of weapon, but if they serve different builds, they have completely different purposes. The Shatered Sun, Jade Splitter Axe and Cerulean blade have more in common than the Cerulean Blade and Yatagan, even though they’re both one-handed curved swords. The first three weapons I mentione are all for a hybrid STR/INT build, while the Yatagan is for a INT/FAITH build.
Never said it was going to be an MMO. Multiplayer is multiplayer. Whenever a game is multiplayer, specially with PVP, you have to make sure that all players are getting the same experience in roughly the same time frame. Wait Timers are there to gatekeep no-lifers. We won’t be getting difficulty settings also because of this.
This is very well put! I agree with more or less all of it!
This does sound unbalanced and I think it is unbalanced. Out of those 10 level ups, most had been distributed to health, stamina and equip load. A few went to strength but not many and none to faith as at this point I was not planning to level faith at all as I didn’t want to be a magic user. I’d be level 19 by the time I met the requirements to use the weapon, that is a long way to go without levelling other stats. I don’t feel this is fair based on how early I received the weapon. Yes, the game is not forcing me to use this weapon, but I hadn’t received many other interesting weapons, this one looked cool and was significantly better than the starting sword that I was using.
This next point is completely subjective, but it doesn’t feel good to be using the starting weapon for such a long time, especially when it is called blood rusted sword. I want to feel like I am progressing and unlocking new and interesting weapons as I play. Yes, this isn’t a Souls game, in Souls I am far more likely to stick to one weapon throughout (in Elden Ring I used the longsword my whole first playthrough to challenge myself) but Souls doesn’t offer randomised loot like this game does. I thought the whole point of random loot was getting to try out lots of different things and constantly be upgrading your gear? That is what I did with armour, I was constantly switching up my armour and I barely upgraded it till I reached the endgame.
I let go of my blood rusted sword when I was level 18/19? That didn’t feel good at all. Most other weapons I found were unusable.
As I said above, Elden Ring does not have randomised loot a lot of weapons players can simply grab right from the start. I’ve done that, I played with a friend in the coop mod and went and grabbed Moonveil from the Magma Wyrm quite early on as he wanted to use it for his battlemage build. It was a tough fight at low level but we pulled through. He had to level a bit before he got to use it sure, but after Godrick he met the requirements easily.
I want the stats to matter more than just requirements for weapons, different scaling is one way of doing this. Adding additional modifiers to each stat could also help. Or introducing stat requirements for different runes for example, say I could buy say a fire-based runic attack but I’d need faith to use it. Or I want to add fire damage to my sword, but that now scales in faith. This would give me more reason to want to level faith/int as a non-staff/mage user.
In this game, you get what you get, and many times you get something you can’t use. Lets say I’m playing dex and using a spear, it’s alright but I’m not really enjoying it that much but I haven’t found any other dex based weapons. In Elden Ring I have many other options available to me, in this game I have to hope to get something I can use. Finally, a rapier drops, but it also requires int and I levelled faith as a secondary stat so I’m still stuck with the spear. This is my issue, I feel that our freedom to experiment with different weapon types is heavily restricted. Adding more “basic” weapons to Fillmore’s shop would help a lot, but most of the weapons he sells now are strength based with 1 dex and 1 faith (this is after the patch btw).
No, it isn’t “technically” the same weapon at all. It might have a similar moveset but it deals magic damage and has magical weapon arts. If you use the weapon on Rennala, or any magic resistant enemy, you are not going to do as well as a physical damage katana. But use it on an enemy that’s weak to magic, you’re going to destroy them. My problem with Wicked is that (most) weapons that require int/faith don’t offer anything magical. I praised the Climber’s Pick in my original post as it needed faith but had a fire attack. I would like this weapon to also deal fire damage, but the unique runic attack was something at least. For a lot of weapons it feels like an arbitrary value “we do not have enough of x type of weapon, let’s just slap the stat on this one” whereas in Elden Ring more thought would have gone into making a magical weapon. I’m not saying that that was Moon’s design philosophy, but it does feel like it sometimes.
I don’t see how stats making sense is a realism argument. It’s simple to me, if a weapon is magical (magic damage, magic attack), it needs int/faith. If it’s not, it doesn’t. I just see that as a logical argument.
I didn’t say that you did. I was pointing out the difference between always online games, MMOs and co-op multiplayer games that also have singleplayer and comparing wait timers as MMOish mechanics. I didn’t mention the latter in my reply to you, but it was in my original post.
No, multiplayer is not multiplayer. This seems like such a weird point to make; having the mechanics to interact with other players does not in any way justify wait timers. Just because a game is multiplayer does not automatically place it in a box where they must do x, y and z.
I do not want MMOish or online survival game wait timers in a co-op game that I will be playing primarily singleplayer. I may classify as a “no-lifer” to you, my first play session was 9 hours long because I was enjoying the game so damn much. I should not be forced to have to wait hours of real time in order to access my upgrades. Wait timers would not effect PvP balance at all. Players are not going to be getting the same experience in the same timeframe no matter what. People will reach the end of the game on release and have very high quality gear, others will take months. If they wanted to balance PvP they would include level based matchmaking or have a hidden gear score that measured the total stats of all your equipment and matchmade against that. These wait timers are not server based, but tied to your system clock. Any player can easily override them, but of course they shouldn’t have to do that.
****One way I can see the multiplayer going is Peer2Peer based on the host’s realm. Obviously I have no idea at present if that will be the case, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Thomas, the CEO, has since confirmed that multiplayer realms will be server based, but fully optional. You will have to manually open up or create a multiplayer realm and then invite your friends to it.
Quote from Thomas:
"I’m guessing most people will want to play a single player realm and main there and then have another realm that they share with their friends, but let’s hear it! Keep in mind: We’re trying to advance Multiplayer beyond what Diablo and Souls, etc. have done so far, meaning that we’ll allow you to create a persistent realm for up to 4 players that’s always online and doesn’t require a host. So if you share a realm with your friend, they can keep farming, raiding and progressing stuff even when you’re offline.
End quote.
I didn’t respond to this point on your original post, but this really rubbed me the wrong way. At no point during marketing have they described this game as a multiplayer only game. The “singleplayer” tag is quite clearly listed on the Steam store page. How dare I have the audacity to play a game marketed as containing singleplayer… in singleplayer! If they do a 180 later down the line and make the game always online, I’m sure there will be many posts on this site complaining.
They haven’t, but the roadmap stating that multiplayer was going to be the first big update after EA release has been up on their website since march 1st. A whole month and a half before the game release.
On that note, Marketing was the biggest problem of this game. They marketed it as an ARPG and a souls-like, which the game is neither, truly. This has caused a lot or headache when it comes to player expectations. The same with the systems we are discussing: they are in place because they (the devs) obviously consider the multiplayer element to be important. But if you didn’t check their website, you wouldn’t know that multiplayer was comingo so soon, as they hadn’t talked about it on their trailers/teasers.
Friend, we bot had 40+ hours of game time less than a week after the game relesead. We are obviously both no-lifing it. And we did so because we both really liked the game, regardless of its problems. Not only we no-lifed the game, we’re now on a forum discussing the game with essay-worth arguments. We’re obviously no-lifing and really passionate about this game.
And that’s what I’m saying: don’t try to change this game into something it’s not. This game is its own thing. Yes, some of the weapon scaling are less than the obvious, but that’s not that detrimental to the game. Instead of changing the way the game works entirely to suit your wants, the devs should, instead, expanding the game’s catalog of weapons. Instead of being angry that there was a dagger with a different combination of stats that made it unusable on your dex/faith build, you should want the devs to insert a bigger variety of items. More items for sale at Fillmore’s, more crafting blueprints and higher availability of low level mats to craft tier 1 and 2 gear that is of your preference should fix a lot of the pain points you complained.
Instead of getting a bunch of useless consumables, I’d much prefer a higher drop rate on gear, and a better inventory system.
The devs and the game are not going to follow your ideas.
Just to givd you an example on how biased your “makes sense” opinion is: why do you associate faith with fire? In most fantasy media, fire is a typical magic attribute from wizards, and generally associated with Intelligence. And yes, although you can also make an argument that fire is often associated with the inquisition/the church, so faith is not unheard of, why would it be exclusively faith?
In fantasy games, bows are often associated with dexterity, but real life archers had to have amazing upper body strength to properly use a bow. In fact, strength was way more important than dexterity.
Again: forget about “what makes sense”, and accept the uniqueness of the game. This whole discussion reminds me of when the first The Division release and you had a bunch of fps players baffled at how bosses could tank several headshots in the game. The whole problem back then was that people didn’t understood that that game was a looter-shooter RPG. And most of the problem with this game is that people are not grasping that this game is neither a souls, nor an ARPG. Is something in the middle, quite unique actually.
Okay, yes you’re absolutely right here. I take this back lmao.
Fire was just the example in that given weapon. I would be happy with any magic based property, but would prefer if in-lore somethings were associated with faith and others intelligence.
I really don’t want to the change this game into something else. I just feel that weapons are currently too restrictive, that is my main argument. Other points were about incentivising players to level other stats.
Yep, I’m well aware of this trope. Even a smaller medieval recurve bow can have a poundage of 100+. I don’t really mind about this for game mechanics though as the damage value is typically of the same type (unless you have fire arrows etc.).
I see multiplayer as simply an addition to the game. The same as Elden Ring has online and offline mode.
I want multiplayer in this game, I just don’t want to be forced to engage with it or be forced to play online.
I really appreciate your opinions and arguments about the game. I feel we agree on a lot and clearly we both want this game to do really well.
Apologies if things may have sounded heated, it was not my intention. I hope you have a great night!
This Bounty guy knows what hes talking about. An actual breath of fresh air
We still have more than 50% of game to go through, which means you will be getting about as much weapon bases as you currently have. Its not about beign angry, its about game being unintuitive to the player in its current state. Players might find a weapon they are fond of, but game will restrict them to use it with a most random requirement you could possibly think of. Now, the problem is that theres no way you could have specd for that weapon ahead of time hoping that something like that existed. Theres nothing that would indicate that if a weapon like that existed it would require that specific attribute or set of attributes. Systems with weapon stat feel 2 random and there are no logical decisions one can make to hopefully spec into a certain gameplay. And thats the problem, because its punishing players for a mistake they did not do. Current weapon system feels like a lottery and I aint winning that lottery ever. This is my extened take on writters take of this post on how it should be approached:
Ah, alright. Well, a solution exists IG right now. There are two healing runes you can equip on your weapon, and these use focus. Even if you don’t want to waste the space on your main weapon, you could use a secondary with this rune in place, and then you wouldn’t ever run out of healing (though it would be inferior to food, still).
Also, heal on block/parry/damage exist as prefixes for gear, so there’s that avenue as well.
I strongly agree with your suggestions all of which are on point and what SL fans appreciate. I was going to write a full feedback as well. But now, I will only add some suggestions and reference your guide for the rest.
Some good points.
I don’t know if I agree with some of your weapon related feedback though. At least I would implement your criticism the other way around. I don’t think that they should change the system as to have only things like staffs or wands be INT weapons. I like the variety and creating a battlemage (or Last Epoch calles it spellblade for example) with a double handed sword is amazing in my opinion. So I think they should keep the weapon variety, but maybe implement more of the identity of the class.
Somewhere else I mentioned for example bows for INT builds that shoot skills onto a targeted area for example. Or 2H swords that shoot projectiles (I believe it’s already in there) but also can be stabbed into the ground to create a magical AoE. Weapons/gear for Faith characters should have something like healing effects. Or shields which give a small shield when blocking. Something reflects more of a paladin like thing. I also haven’t seen a dagger with stealth related skills. Another thing just crossing my mind for INT related swords for example would be something like the eagle strikes from Zoro in One Piece.
All in all I like the variety but would like to see slightly more class/stat identity related stuff.
Also, I do agree with weapons requiring 22 of this stat and 22 of that stat to have too much of a requirement. Single stat weapons on max now require 42 of that stat. And I think the requirement for 2 stats should be the same at least, but maybe lower. At least for the early game.
Later in game I don’t know how high you can raise certain stats. For example will 150 STR be max? Will every stats have a max of 150? Or 100? And if there is a max, how many stat points will we get in the end? Will it be possible to eventually become the god of Cerims by maxing every stat and basically be the reincarnation of the Cerim system? (Can’t say too much without spoiling.)
Would be awesome if respeccing is not needed in the end anymore, since weapons only scale with their given stat anyway. In the end in Elden Ring after grinding and farming levels a lot you could grow all stats into boss teritory and just play whatever you like. I liked that idea.
I didn’t say say that only staffs should have int requirements. I said that I think magic melee weapons should also have dex or str requirements, e.g. 14 dex 24 int, and that they should deal magical damage of some kind and/or a magical runic attack. I also love the idea of creating a battlemage, but these weapons don’t feel like I am a battlemage. It feels like I am playing a non-magical character levelling magic so I can use a seemingly non-magical weapon. And to be a battlemage, I should also have to level dex/str to use a melee weapon. A mage only really cares about int but a battlemage should care about both.
My point about staffs what that I am fine with them having high int as the only requirement.
Thank you for added info. I do not think they should have added Dex or str requirement next to int. Just int is fine to me. As long as it suits the fantasy then on use.
Sorry, but I dont think that would feel good. Why would I ever level strength or dexterity over leveling int or faith since those would allow me to use all weapon types + staffs. If we go with your suggestion, game will end up with a far more int and faith scalling weapons because you will be able to run all kind of weapon types such as magical heavy axes or magical daggers. I cannot use heavy axes with dex. I cannot use daggers with strength. Why would I limit weapon types I could use by not dropping all my points I would usually scatter over at least 2 or 3 of those stats into just faith or int? Now, if you make dex great axes and str daggers as well as dex/str staffes… may Ik what use stats have at that point? what purpose do they have at that point besides alienating seemingly random weapons from the pool of weapons ur character can use, which is exactly what we have right now. They become just a simple artificial limiter that nobody benefits from and adds nothing to the fantasy of the character.
I will write it once more since I do not wanna be mentioning 2 separate posts for the future purposes.
All weapons should require and scale with either strength or dex or mix of them. All weapons that do plague or heat damage should require and scaled with faith, while all weapons that do cold or lightning should require and scale with intellect to use. Inserting a plague or fire rune or gem should add faith requirement and scalling to the item while lowering scalling of str/dex they had. If they wanna keep 1 element per weapon limitation for this to work they would have to remove option to insert gems or runes of different elemental type to an item which already has an elemental type . You could use this same method of inserting a rune or gem of certain element to limit amount of affixes you could roll on a weapon, if you were to insert rune or gem before enchanting the item. I would prefer if they reworked scalling to be more welcoming to new players from standard soullikes as ratings F to S would not mean much to them. So instead of rating stats weapon scales with with a letter, how about we have a number of damage for each stat weapon scales with written on the weapon that provides information on how much damage weapon gains by leveling a certain stat once type. I do think soft and hard caps would need to be introduced unless you want people to only meet requirement and pump everything into highest scalling stat, but an even better system would be if scalling number kept going down naturally for a stat you keep put points int, and scalling for all stats gets better as you level up, so that you cannot end up in situation where theres no scalling for a certain stat. that number is the number that is written on item for that stats scalling. Since this game is system rpg, you could have those value varry a bit for essentially same weapons, as well.
Not meant to down talk your vision, I respect your opinion, but what I read is: “things that aren’t true” → ASSUMPTIONS → repeat.
There are weapon archetypes just not available to me as an INT player at all. Or barely. I don’t see your point on then having to level Faith and Int over Str and Dex because of usability. That is not how the game currently is and it is probably not how it will be as devs have elaborated over this and said they will keep the balance in mind in the designs. Even better: I went INT because everyone and their mother went STR and my gameplay was a lot different than what you saw on all the content of players playing STR. Also my options are, overall, a lot different. With an off chance I find the ONE 2h sword, but even then I play Focus heavy as I am a mage. So with the 2H sword I can be more on the mage side of play of for example the Echo Knight. A heavy battle mage. Amazing stuff. Heck a STR player can build focus and go for casts with his weapon (throws, projectiles, etc.)
And you are just assuming they will create more INT weapons than STR weapons for example. Why? If they don’t there is no issue at all.
It is clear that when you level for example Str over for example Int you choose to lean more towards certain weapon archetypes and vice versa. That system is fine, it is balanced if both stats have the same amount of options. Same with Dex or Faith. And the choice you have now is to rather destroy the crap out of someone with basic hits as you have not Focus to cast runes all the time, or lean towards a lot of Focus to go Rune casts heavy within your given weapon archetype. And even then you still are able to choose a handful of weapons in other archetypes.
If your complaint about Int and Faith is true, you can say the same about STR and DEX. And as a pure Int I don’t even know of a bow or decent daggers I can equip and I saw all the weapons currently ingame. I don’t see how your point is valid at all if you look at the current game state and make no assumptions about the intelligence and competence of the dev team regarding keeping things balanced. There is no need to change the system, just to maintain balance. And that should be a goal on every system.
u would be shocked, but they are suggestions, A lot of people are not happy with current way weapons work, they do not add anything to the fantasy, they just take away from it.
Yea, and thats why we are talking in feedback and suggestion forum rn.
how? what exactly was different?
you should reread that part, you totally missed my point. I am not gonna type the same thing again.
and thats not what u r doing in current game. u r not leaning towards any archetypes by leveling and stat rn, and thats why we lot have a problem.
what? Its not a complaint to begin with, its a suggestion on how to fix this broken system they rolled the game with. I dont even understand what you mean by “saying the same”. Every fantasy needs to be build on the reallity to be a good fantasy. You cannot be wielding a 2 handed great sword or axe without str, even if it was baptized 10000 times. It still needs strength to be lifted of the ground and wielded. You need certain amount of dex to be able to draw bow or wield dual daggers efficiently. thats reality. Ignore basic laws of reallity and fantay wont feel good or immersive.
True, I dont think there are any pure int bow and daggers rn. I just logged in to take a few ss of gear of all pure int or quallity int and faith builds that basically would be exactly the same if they were locked behind str or dex attribute, since there is nothing magical about them in the first place. They are all artificially seemingly randomly locked behind an attribute for no reason.
But that is the thing. They DONT take away from the fantasy. As you can still build it if you want. And what is a lot of players? A poll from a dev revealed 85% of responders prefer the freedom over being locked.
AND the same people asking for more locked classes also ask for respeccing. Which to me just feels like contra of each other. So you want flexibility but also not?
Like I said, the way the system is now you can play the fantasy you want if you want. Limit yourself if you want to. Now people at least have a choice.
