Poe2 in EA:
Claire Obscure (just released by Indy dev):
Last Epoch:
Not even in the same universe.
This is their competition.
Damage control all you want. I’m done with this conversation.
If you think those games are the competition, you don’t know what genre or audience this game is for. PoE2 is just the next iteration of a current live service game… people just move over from 1 to 2. So the fact that you are trying to compare those numbers to this just highlights how disingenuous your argument is.
And I don’t feel mentally exhausted trying to play this game, which I do when I spend any length of time playing PoE2 end game. That game and this are not the same types of experiences.
IKR!?!?!
maybe we should play together when co-op finally drops!!!
(I’ve failed to convince most of my friend to get interested on this one, TBH I think the many comparisons to seemingly unreconcilable franchises actually hurts more than makes it interesting, only my opinion tho)
sorry, but I think you are conflating things a bit…
to say “not enough content” or “overpromised” while knowing the game is in early access seems kinda unreasonable in my opinion.
I’ve stated that co-op should have been prioritized over adding content, exactly because multiplayer feedback can’t be replicated nor substituted by internal (devs) playtests, and because people investing as much time as you will complain: “..ok you add co-op. To do the same content? I don’t think that’s going to push the game forward..” well come on now, if co-op is not there yet and you play the whole game before it is, what do you expect?
I would argue tho, that even for people who have played the content solo, playing co-op will change enough the gameplay so to still be worth going through it again, but obviously the “experience it for the 1st time” feeling will be kinda gone…
don’t be sorry for being negative… is fair for you to state how you feel… nonetheless, I feel most people are not as negative as you are, so I think the game will succeed and maybe you should feel a bit of relief… XD
I completely agree, streamers should find a way to make content around games…
but no game should be made around streamers… would be just an absurd proposition…
I agree w/ Warlan tho, most players wont create multiple characters… but on the same note, why is that a bad thing?
Games should have enough content, I agree, but come on, how much is enough? I don’t think any single individual has the objective answer they think they have, @Warlan in particular, subjectively speaking the game has not enough content to some, but has more than enough to others, this doesn’t change the fact Moon Studios can only make the quantity of content they can, if they manage to make enough to satisfy the majority of their costumers, then mission clear, no?
Then why is this game doing poorly? It had half the players with the Breach release then it did when it was first released. No one is saying to make the game around streamers. Streamers not playing the game is just a symptom of the problem. This game just doesn’t have a wide enough appeal. It’s very niche and that doesn’t bode well.
Stop drinking the Kool aid and give real feedback.
is it doing poorly bud? on what metrics? yours are clearly flawed… comparing apples to oranges and complaining those are not the same is a fruitless endeavor, if you ask me… XD
also:
I’ve done so, actually given real feedback, multiple times in fact, and if you are saying this to me it means you don’t know (or don’t care) and are likely more interested in “ranting”, probably for selfish reasons, and not really “wanting the game to succeed” as you claimed…
Thank you for your such detailed explanation. You literally picekd the thoughts on my mind with these words.
Um, sales figures. Number of players. Thomas’s comments. Lol. Denial.
I don’t track your feedback, but you seem very protective of the current state this game is in based on your responses to me.
I guess we will see in a year from now where this game really stands. I hope it does well.
My primary feedback is: continue to trust your instincts in forging that unique identity. Your demonstrated willingness to experiment, combined with a clear understanding of the genre’s nuances, is precisely why I have confidence in this project and took the risk on Early Access.
This latest request for focused feedback has nailed down a suspicion I had observing their community interaction for a long time: the core challenge NRftW faces navigating between different genres. Moon Studios obviously wont declare such openly as would be inviting pointless feedback, by “admitting” (from some perspectives) to have commit a mistake, when they have not. I think this was caused by their goal of making something unique while heavily stating they are borrowing from well established franchises/genres as this is the simplest way to convey something new… everything is derivative in someway or extent, but when you state such yourself it invites heavy comparison… personally speaking, is usually quite harmless and less disruptive when players/costumers draw the comparisons themselves just by noticing details… alas, this is water under the bridge. And I truly believe they are doing the best they can to actually deliver on a great game. How I know this? well, even if I don’t particularly agree or like some of the changes, like swapping the classic attributes system for a prebaked class based one, I can see they are committed to changing stuff around if they think it might be better for the game, going against the grain to find something new/novel, and this uniqueness is the singular and most appealing aspect of NRftW that will keep me liking the game despite occasionally not liking any particular other aspect they might change. A souls-lite (like kinda) with seamless co-op is that uniqueness factor for me personally, but as long as they don’t try and perfectly copy other games is likely it will still be unique enough for others w/ different interests too. Based on the fact Moon Studios doesn’t classify Elden Ring the same as Dark Souls was a great relief, a tells me they actually understand much more about how games are made than much of the feedback I see thrown around leads one to believe. I strongly dislike arguments like: “let them cook”, because it doesn’t convey nothing close to constructive feedback, just about the interlocutor of such comments.
P.S.: Gave this feedback here for it being pertinent, but also feeling the importance to state things clearly as I see them.
you don’t need nor should, track my feedback bud, but you also don’t need to make pointless comments like:
as it only shows you are more interested on arguing w/ other people than actually providing feedback
most of what you said is personal opinion, and is fine as far as feedback goes, but trying to argue w/ other people about the merits is not… not only that, but the arguments you have used just show how out of touch you are, making your actual feedback less valuable (not for me mind you, for them devs)
I have no interest in prolonging this discussion w/ you, you misunderstood my comments, and is not my job nor goal to make it clear to you as it will not help the game in one way or another… just know we will agree to disagree…
Can you guys imagine getting to Malenia, getting your ass kicked, but you dig it because you’re learning. But then then you need to go back because flasks don’t refill so you have to make them, but vendors don’t restock so you have to run around The Lands Between farming materials so you can craft HEALING POTIONS (which is fine when you’re out there exploring doing quests and solving puzzles, BUT IT’S NOT OK WHEN YOU RESPAWN 3 FEET AWAY FROM THE HUNTRESS)
I want to love this game. I love the setting, the art style, the combat, crafting and building Sacrament. But man, what a cockblock having to farm plants so I can cook when I could be fighting Huntress. Just let the vendor restock, IDK, make it so it restocks when the player dies X times, that should be a good way to know a player is butting heads with a Boss
Valid frustration. It’s indeed jarring to be pulled out of an intense boss-fight rhythm to go gather materials. You’ve pinpointed the core design tension of the game: it uses a survival/crafting loop that requires preparation, which directly conflicts with the expectation of a frictionless ‘boss run’ that we’re used in Elden Ring, as implied by your example.
The friction seems to spike specifically when players try to zero-in on a single boss for repeat attempts, a valid playstyle the current system punishes.
The resource system seems intentionally designed to make players disengage from a losing fight to explore, rather than brute-force it. A game loop also present in Elden Ring as an option, which I actually like… getting more options would be much better than just be forced onto a certain playstyle… IMHO
Can you elaborate? What do you mean by “a losing fight”? Isn’t it just learning? Or do you mean the case when the player is undergeared?
Elden Ring makes a way better point of letting you know when you’re in a losing position, at least at the beginning. And it’s way of showing you other paths is frankly, way more interesting.
Having such a strong narrative focus here is a hindrance. Elden Ring works precisely on how vague and how little focus is put on storytelling
I either want to experience the story, or engage with the beatiful animations (WHICH FEED OFF AND GROW WITH THE NARRATIVE FOCUS) or just fight. which feeds on some of the best animation i’ve seen in a videogame.
The survival part of this I really don’t care. It works wonders when I’m starting the Nameless Pass or about to go into The Trench but just sucks when you run into the Bosses. If a player manages the overworld, the fight should be the boss. Not the system
sure, losing a fight means exactly that… literally XD
but I’ll elaborate as you ask, in the particular case of boss fights, means being killed, and having to fight again…
and you are right, it does mean “just learning” if that’s the only way acceptable to you to defeat a boss, as it turns out, in this game is more nuanced than that, you can prepare more (whatever means: more lvls, more healing, better healing, better gear, better build, and so on) to help overcome lacking skill… not replace it mind you (even tho some builds do seem to override skill TB completely H, but that’s a different discussion)
A good game IMO is one that allows for brute-force and skill expression as well as intelligent use of mechanics and management resources… depending on how some games are designed those are contradictory and not possible, but I think is possible in this game, as is true for other games like Elden Ring, as an example…
maybe, but then again, this is not Elden Ring, and I’m not sure it is exactly what Moon is aiming for… and maybe this is the crux, from what I can observe many players don’t have a clear vision of whatever them devs are trying to create here…
I would think allowing for a system to help streamline game loop for those interested just in fighting (namely bosses and maybe sub-bosses) is not a big of a deal nor that difficult to implement, as FromSoft did w/ Elden Ring… but then again, we don’t exactly know (yet) if that’s important to them (Moon)
No, I’m more interested in hearing constructive feedback. Still haven’t heard any other than your dislike some of the changes or proposed changes.
Now you are resorting to deflection. Again, not helpful. So at this point I’m done with this conversation.
P.S. I know English is your second language but the word Is customer. Not costumer. And there’s a saying, “the customer is always right.”
I wrote something like:
Slower-paced ARPG with methodical combat and unique art style.
if that’s all you got from my comments, I will tell you right now, you got me wrong… and if you care to know, look at my posts here and elsewhere (you don’t have to, it does not matter)
now, really.. come on, that was clearly a typo, and if you, like me spoke 5 different languages while actively using 2-3 of them constantly you would surely know is less about typing perfectly than actually conveying one’s thoughts… and you clearly understand me…
I’ll give yah the benefit of the doubt and assume you are just pedantic for no particular good reason…
but just in case, that it was a pathetic attempt to disarm my arguments by trying and failing to establish I have poor language skills… then I literally have nothing else to discuss w/ you…
irregardless of all that, what are you? 12??? (you obviously are not interested in constructive feedback LOL)
(p.s.: oh yeah, I had to correct that, some people require pristine language, otherwise they can’t follow)