Second Feedback after 75h - it's a REALLY fun game, but it's neither ARPG nor souls-like

I spend a good amount of time with this game in the past week. I wrote early feedback after about 20h of gameplay. Now after much longer, levelling to max and doing about 100 crucible runs I finally got the grasp what this game is and feel like now my feedback will have more insight.

Two sentences about my background. I played all Diablo games since D1 and enjoyed all of them (each for a different reason). Otherwise I played Dark Souls 1-3 and got platinum trophies on Bloodborne, Sekiro and Elden Ring. And I don’t really see myself a real gamer. I’m a casual, it’s just that some games really have something special that makes me want to play them over and over.

No Rest for the Wicked is very special. It’s very unique, original, it’s a statement. And I feel it’s a very honest vision - I can see that creators made I game they wanted to make with no compromises. And I think this is the most amazing thing about it. This is exactly why I like From Software - no compromise on the vision. Game has a lot of charm and beauty. Controls are flawless - let’s be honest no one made a game like that before and I felt instantly comfortable with movement and combat. So overall it’s just a great game and on top of that one of a kind.

However, it’s not a game for me at all… and here is why:

  1. It’s a platformer first and city builder second (with a bit of combat and some light RPG elements)
    If I think about what was the most of my time spent during those 70 hours, it was running errands around the town, getting resources, chopping trees, waiting for trees to respawn, putting hide on tanning racks, picking up mushrooms and cooking soups. Waiting for town upgrades, decorating house, moving things between different chests and going back to town to empty inventory. That fist section of the game was great. Starting at the shore it was moving up, combat, combat, moving around a puzzle, combat, combat and then boss! That felt great. But quickly the game became a resource management with few enemies sprinkled around. And it seems like this is just a beginning. There will be player trade, managing farms etc. It feels like MMO/city builder.
  2. As for the platformer side - Cerim Crucible:
    Out of about 100 runs I died from falling from ledges about 80% of the time. I died few times from enemy attacks in the beginning and I never happened again. I died 4 times from Echo Knight and rest were all winning runs.
    And then I realized that the biggest challenge of this game is to stay on the platform. And I really wanted to just fight the enemies, learn to avoid their attacks and take them down in a fair fight. And oh man those enemies are fantastic in the Crucible! Such a fun to fight them. I love how they move and attack. There is a good variety and I have a different strategy for each of them. But it’s not my main focus - I’m mostly watching all the ledges and making sure I don’t fall off. And when the encounter becomes too difficult I just start pushing everyone off the cliff. The Crucible dungeon remined me most of Super Mario 64 - and I really mean it as a compliment. I think it’s not bad to be compared to that game. But I barely played 3d platformers since.

In my first feedback post I complained about navigation and camera. But now I see that that is the essence of that game. I just was expecting something different. Now I feel, like those are not issues with the game - it’s simply not a game for me. It’s too little action and combat and RPG elements are very simplistic (I wish that difference between str and dex or int wasn’t just which weapons I will be locked out, but at least have other contributions to stats - str gives some boost to equip load, dex to attack speed etc)

Now, this is feedback - not criticism. Because after all this time I don’t think that there is anything wrong with the game. Both objectively and subjectively I think this is a great game. It has elements that I love and enjoy in games, but they are in minority or maybe not as prominent features as I would like. What Diablo and Souls games have in common is that they are super lean - it’s all meat no fat. It’s constant encounter after encounter. From bonfire to bonfire. Meanwhile No Rest for The Wicked feels more chilled, more MMO vibe of hanging around the town and picking up mushrooms. And I loved the fact you changed stack size from 20 to 25. It basically makes no difference, but I like the fact you stand by your vision. And I’m sure that by 1.0 release all of it will make sense once all game mechanics will come together.

By no means I’m disappointed, just surprised by this game. And I think that’s great that this game surprised me - most of what’s out there is same thing over and over and over and over again. At this point of spending 70h with this game I can appreciate your vision and effort much more.

My favourite part was Falstead Darak second boss fight. It was clear arena with no ledges to fall off from and it was very visually clear. The silhouette of the boss was very clear and he was very readable against the background. And it had a surprise second phase and fighting him was challenging and a lot of fun. Same goes for second phase of Echo Knight, very fun combat (fist phase is not very readable - I can hardly notice my character that with her tiny knife is constantly somewhere under that horse).

So those are my feelings, I hope it was valuable input - in case someone happens to read it!

Much love to the team and I wish you all the best - you are truly holding a gem in your hands.

its a souls-rpg. a new genre

I literally spend almost all my time fighting, and trying new weapon styles and runes, etc.

Only time I harvest is if it’s right in front of me.

I dunno why you’re spending so much time running around not fighting, but if you run around the three zones killing mobs, by the time you finish the third one, the first one will have respawned. Also if you’re falling that much, you must be playing with k&m, or just not good with a joystick.

You dont have to over harvest things in the game. You don’t even have to tan hides or smelt ore. Just buy it, or find it in chests and off mobs.

It is much more efficient that way anyways, and more fun.

Also, this is an action RPG, so is souls. So is Diablo.

It is an RPG, with action combat. Just because Diablo does it one way, with printer paper hordes of enemies, doesn’t mean wicked isn’t an arpg.

And honestly, this games combat by far tops running through one shotting hordes of mostly meaningless enemies in Diablo.

1 Like

The ole, it’s neither but it’s also both. Definitely innovation within the genre, creating something that isn’t like what’s come before, but combines elements to create something new.

What is an Action RPG? It comes down to the style of gameplay being more Action based instead of turn based or menu based. Although the genre has come to be defined by games like Diablo and Path of Exile, it’s actually very broad, and while Wicked is different, it absolutely falls within that genre, and is pioneering within it. If you look at the wiki page for Action RPG there’s all sorts of titles in there that wouldn’t typically be considered ARPGs today, it even suggests “Soulslike” to be a subcategory of the genre. Depending on how far you want to go along with wiki definitions.

Platforming, I feel, has always been part of the genre, especially if you consider that a lot of MMORPGs could also fall within the category, but I wouldn’t say that a game including platforming makes it a necessarily a platformer. For me that summons ideas of things like Dead Cells or Ori or Mark of the Ninja. It’s in there, but the core of the game engine really is the combat, the action, that’s where the real challenge and progression is, platforming happens along the way, but you’re not necessarily going to unlock new regions or character upgrades through it, that’s what boss fights are for.

Anyway, it’s just interpretation. Not saying anything good or bad about your feedback, just rambling for the sake of discourse.

1 Like