This explanation is fine, but this system still locks you to a class that could be entirely undesired until you get an appropriate weapon. And then, rather than locking you to a node you don’t want to get, you’re forced to use weapons you dont want to use, which necessitates gameplay you dont want. Nodes are used in other games because the choice they’ve taken is to allow desired gameplay and price superfluous passives. This is doing the opposite, in a less than stellar fashion to boot, since it’s also RNG dependent. I get where the devs are coming from, but this just sidesteps the question of ‘how do you want to actually play the game’. Because leveling is precisely where people begin, you want to give people choices on how to begin. At the very least, they’d need to have some number of basic classes to choose from for the prologue area, and a shop that refreshes its inventory more often than ‘once every 24 hours’.
It has been promoted as a sort of “isometric soul’s like game” … And that’s what we have, in some points, since 2years… and now, they want to completly remove that… Attribute system is what we saw and played since the begining.
No more build crafting, no more energy, focus or health point…
This class system is just more restrictive than evrything “pls players, stop thinking about stats, and theorycraft, just grind our classes to the max lvl to get runes” … well thx, but no thx. It feels like it’s easier to make classes than balance and improve the current system….
But, we’ll see… traits system may be nice… but with only 6 traits to use, it have to be impactfull and to leave the player the choice to do what he want to play.
Exactly what I was thinking. In order to get the traits you want to use you have to play with a weapon you probaly dont want to use. Maybe the different traits have a big overlap between the different classes so that you can choose at least from a bunch of weapons to get the desired trait? I at least hope it will be this way. So that I can choose any melee class to get that tankyness trait I want or any caster class to get that extra damage trait on my spells.
I wonder if the number of traits will increase over time. Thomas mentioned that there are 6 Traits right now. Does it mean the maximum of traits will not change from lvl 1 to lvl 60? This must mean the Traits have to become more powerful with increasing class level. And this would mean that you are much more powerful when you have the 6 most powerful Traits from 6 different classes. So in order to become most powerful you would have to master at least 6 classes. This can´t be right.
Maybe the maximum number of traits can be increased somehow, maybe with the ichor system?
Your point is really alarming and makes a lot of sense.
In order to get a unique combo of 6 traits, you would need to max out 2-3 classes at least or you would be stuck with the traits of just 1 class. This system is actually a lot less flexible than it sounded at first.
It would be a lot better to have Gear Enchantments and Gems to have more meaningful ‘trait-like’ bonuses and keep the attribute system, rather than completely redo the whole levelling system in this dramatic manner.
That is an interesting point. If we can only equip six traits, that does limit the possible number of combinations a bit too. It was also stated that the max level of a class is 60 iirc, so if you only get to use 6 traits it only makes sense if you need to level the traits too. That could mean that you only need 10 levels in a class to master a single trait.
Depending on how many traits each class has compared to how many you can equip, making a unique build might require 3+ classes. I wouldn’t mind that if I can level multiple classes at once, similarly to Final Fantasy Tactics where you get a little JP for any class you have an equipped trait for.
Speaking of FFT, in that game you get to buy skills for each class and equip the ability to use all of the active skills for two classes at once. I wonder if there will be anything like that? Something where you get to have multiple bonuses from a class at the cost of only equipping one trait.
I am only growing more curious as to how the class system will actually work in Wicked.
Class and character level are separate. The max character level will be 60. We don’t know what it will be for classes.
The placeholder screenshot in the interview above showed a class was “mastered” at level 50, and the direct question regarding that was answered with ‘the max level will be 60.’
Forgive me if I assumed that the max level Thomas was referring to was the class level. Looking back at it it would also make sense if the class level capped at 50, as in the image.
Regardless, my key point was not related to the exact max level of a class or a character. My key point was that if traits are leveled as well we can speculate that you would not need to master a class to master an individual trait.
I do not know if the six max traits mentioned above are actually six traits you can equip, or six traits per class, or what. I can only speculate at this moment, since nobody but the devs have any idea how the class & traits system will actually work.
Yeah, we won’t need to do that. You’ll just be able to level enough into a class to buy the trait you want and move on to another class of your liking.
We’ll be able to equip up to 6 traits at once. It would make sense if every class has 6 traits to fill the slots, but that’s just an assumption. I really can’t imagine it being less than that.
Traits should all be equally strong for the system to work properly. From the beginning, you should be able to choose from all the Traits of the class you’re leveling in the order you prefer.
If Traits are percentage effects like +20% there’s no need for it to become stronger they do so naturally because they multiply the base stats, which are larger numbers.
If traits are “Flat” effects (unlikely) like you get +30 hp this can usually be balanced like this: +30hp +1hp per level.
If some traits are stronger than others, I think situations like this could be a serious problem, so I hope they make them all balanced.
There is no need to enhance, the percentage effects, they become stronger with the with the natural increase of the character’s base stats, and even if it wasn’t the case it would be enough to rebalance the enemies, spending time enhancing the traits seems tedious and not fun.
It would make the system extremely rigid since it would always be better to first strengthen the effects to make them stronger rather than trying new ones.
I think the traits should be equally strong too. I wonder how we increase our strength however. Because if the traits are equally strong and the number of traits does not increase you only have one option left. It has to last very long to get SP to buy traits. Or did I miss an option? I do not like if it lasts long to get new traits because that means you have to play weapons you do not want to play with for longer.
There is a lot of speculation at this point because we do not have a lot of information but I think with a lot of tweaking the system has a lot of potential.
From this image it seems that a single class has 24 traits
I think that if they work like the levels simply the first levels are quick to unlock and the last ones are slower to unlock.
But I mean, having 24 traits per class seems like too much, I have no idea how something like that could be balanced.
In any case the pace at which we unlock the traits is certainly very impotent and I hope it doesn’t take us too long.
If it is like you describe then you would become much faster strong if you would take one trait from class 1, switch to the next similar class and take the next trait very fast and so on. In this way you would be much faster at 6 traits as with sticking to one class. This would be not a good system.
I see the following as a solution:
All traits are similarly strong.
One will increase the maximum number of traits with Charakter level. I.e. one trait every 10 levels.
It will not be increasingly hard to receive new traits.
Every trait can be chosen freely. No level cap.
One receives SP for the current class, so depending on your current weapon but also for using traits. This way you can receive SP of different classes similarly.
I think this would solve most of my current imahinary issues with the system. What do you think? Will there be new problems?
I know, if it were up to me, each level would take the same amount of time, giving players the choice to do what they want, but I expect the developers to make each level harder than the other on purpose to encourage players to try different things.
Agree, ideally they should be equally strong.
I don’t think there’s any need for that, I’d rather have the ability to create my own build from the start.
Agree, but I bet the devs won’t do that.
Agree, this is very important.
I don’t know what you mean by “gain XP also for using traits”, but I agree that there should be a way to get traits even from classes we’re not playing so as not to force players to use weapons they don’t find fun just for a trait.
“One will increase the maximum number of traits with Charakter level. I.e. one trait every 10 levels.“ it’s the only thing I find problematic.
Being able to have an interesting build even in the early game is a fun thing, I don’t see why build customization should be limited so much in the early game.
I just think you need some kind of progression. You need to become stronger over time just like now with the attribute system otherwise you run into the issue that after obtaining the 6 traits early you are very strong and after that you do not become much stronger anymore.
My idea for SP gain was that you receive SP for:
- Using a certain weapon (your class)
- Using s certain trait from another class
Sorry are you talking about SP as in “Stamina Points” or EXPerience?
it’s already present in every other aspect of the game, there is no need for this system to have it too.
it’s not a problem as long as they balance the game correctly.
It’s a nice idea.
I’m positive he means XP.
No Skill points. You receive them for playing with a certain weapon and you can buy runes and traits of the associated class.
SP would be the equivalent of JP from Final Fantasy Tactics.
EXP levels the character, SP/JP levels the class/job to get more traits.
I like this idea. It would be hard to balance things like percentage increases against things that add passive abilities, but if they can manage it then leveling traits would be unnecessary.
I would still end up trying a bunch of new traits even if they could be leveled. Trying several ‘weaker’ traits for a cheap cost of ‘trait points’ (SP? JP?) would feel like having a trial of a trait before fully investing in it. It’s not so much rigid as it is encouraging investment once you have decided on a playstyle.
If all classes have that many traits, then I really wonder how many traits you can effectively use simultaneously. If you can only use a very small number of traits, that would feel very restrictive.
I don’t mind if the early game is very simplified, as that is a standard in most RPG games in the industry. Being weaker until you gain levels is part of the appeal of a leveling system in the first place. Having the flexibility to combine more traits as you level greatly rewards players for leveling up, which is a different type of reward system compared to just increasing stats. I personally get no satisfaction from a level system where the only benefit is ‘number go up.’
Just like Final Fantasy Tactics. If you have a knight that has a job skill from squire equipped, you still get JP for the squire and the knight. As mentioned above, JP is not exactly the same as EXP. JP is more like trait currency, while EXP increases character level.
Same as above. SP = JP = trait currency, not EXP.
It is a different kind of progression. As much fun as it will likely be to progress in factions or gathering new items and unlocking new shortcuts, it would be even more fun if you can also progress your character in more ways than just ‘number go up.’
Do you guys really think it feels good to not grow stronger (at least the class system compared to the attribute system) from lvl 1 to 60? I think levels need to feel significant also from a pure numbers point of view. Ideally I think a game should become easier if you do everything optimally and harder if you do everything wrong. Due to the reason that enemies become stronger over time, we also need to become stronger and not only scale horizontally. I am not sure if equipment scaling alone would be enough.