Multiplayer: Co-Op, Invasions and Duels (how to be the #1 online ARPG)

Hello Moon Studio Devs! TheKoop here. I’m a souls-like creator who focuses on PvP, and your game has a very unique opportunity to blow away souls fans with its online play. The co-op and pvp featured in Demon’s Souls and the souls series was revolutionary at the time, but has not advanced at all to meet the times. Despite Elden Ring being the most sold Fromsoft game, the feedback regarding its co-op and pvp is (to be kind) abysmally negative. With the king of Fromsoft modding, LukeYui, making Seamless Co-Op, it shows just how far behind Fromsoft is from what the fans expect.

With that said, here are some suggestions that will be key to improving the online experiences for both Co-Op and PvP.

#1 - Netcode - Simply put, please use strong, well developed netcode that is more advanced that a normal p2p connection. Dedicated servers would be best, but any of the more advanced algorithm based p2p systems like GGPO, other forms of Rollback, or the like, would set you in a category high above any of your competition. You only need to look to recent launch title Lords of the Fallen, to see what happens when your action rpg has bad netcode. Please remember that netcode significantly affects both co-op and pvp quality.

#2 - Rewards - Most games (for reasons I do not understand) fear handing out real, and motivating, in-game rewards for interacting with the multiplayer. Incentivizing players to at least try it is very important, and rewarding players with PvE relevant rewards, unique cosmetics, unique crafting recipes, and the like is important for encouraging players to try out a historically difficult game type.

#3 - PvP Game Modes - This is a highly neglected area of the online play for this type of game. Elden Ring has an arena for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and Invasions. Only invasions are unique, because they offer a blended PvE and PvP experience. 1v1 style game modes are out-dated and generally unpopular. The arena shooters from which they come are outdated as well. Warzone is an example of how gamers are seeking that PvPvE experience.

  • Add a unique invasion-like mechanic - As players play online, whether solo or with friends, allow 1-2 players to invade them. They join the world and seek to accomplish some kind of objective. I suggest giving the invader one of several objectives to complete inside the host’s world. Some examples could include: 1) Plant a cursed obelisk and defend it from the player. At the end of the timer, the invader wins, receiving loot and adding some kind of world-wide curse to the host’s world (ex. more elites, weaker healing etc). The penalties main purpose is to incentivize the host from not quitting, or simply ignoring it. Quitting would be an instant win for the invader. 2) Defend the host from a powerful PvE enemy that hunts them down - Most folks forget that pvp in these games is meant to be PvPvE, so why not reverse the roll for the invader occasionally? Defeating the boss together grants everyone loot, and blesses the Host World (ex. boosted healing, faster regen of materials, go wild)3) Boss Competition - Two groups compete to kill a boss first, while being able to battle the whole time. 4) The Classic - Kill the Host - no curses or anything but just straight PvP. I’ll include some general balance notes for invasions here. - Don’t allow more than 2 allies per 1 invader (1v2, or 2v4 for example) - Add an item that allows for “honorable 1v1s” while invading, which isolates two players who agree and disables healing - Add an item that allows the invader to summon a monster ally (to emphasise the PvPvE element)

My examples are just some starting points, but what the community is hungry for is new, creative ways of enjoying PvP and Co-Op. These are just some examples, but I have always liked the idea of not being sure what you’re going to get when you choose to invade. Hurting or Helping?

In case you’re unconvinced about the invasion mechanic, it’s original intent was to balance the benefits given to solo hosts, and their multiplayer friends. Things like juggling aggro between two co-opers is very very hard to balance with just boss design. Invasions play a key role in adding emergent gameplay for solo players, and balancing co-op. Player will always complain about invasion style mechanics as they add a random element of difficulty, but the goal is to make a difficult game isn’t it?

#4 - PvP Balancing - It’s hard to get PvP balancing right, and getting the right feedback is key. Consider forming a PvP creator advisory group, to get specialised insight from the people most invested in that part of your game. I would suggest having one of these for challenge runners and speedrunners as well, as PvP, Challenge Running and Speed Running are what keep ARPGs alive for years.

Consider having PvP & PvE balancing separated (if possible) as this reduces the anger and outcry from PvE players feeling that their favorite 1 shot stick got nerfed because of “those PvPers” :rage: I think in an ideal world, the game is balanced for both at the same time, but that’s real hard.

#5 - PvP Tutorializing - If PvP is to be implemented well, a player will need to be able to get the absolute basics from the game itself rather than online. The PvP community around these games is very passionate, and would love to help develop good, useful tutorials. If your game has PvP, and doesn’t teach Roll Catching (for example), players will end up frustrated.

That’s all for now, thanks for reading!

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I would do all the friendly invading. I’mma come into your world and by thick and thin make sure you get through it!

I’m mostly a PvE player, but did PvP in games like Spacemarine, For Honor, World of Warcraft. I’ll add my POV and experiences and how I enjoyed PvP and how it can appeal to me.

Following your structure:

2. Rewards

I would do PvP if there are cosmetics that I want, I play this game to live out various roleplaying fantasies. But, it will depend on how I obtain those rewards. I shouldn’t feel like it is a choir to get them. Something like play 3 games would be simple enough. Then it is equally important to ensure that I will keep playing the PvP gamemodes out of enjoyment. Since the extrinsic reward is now gone.

3. PvP Game Modes

My favorite game mode for PvP has always been Seize Ground. If that is in the game I will for sure try it out. Never been a fan of arena’s, I like the additional tactical aspects. And the mutual respect people tend to have, no ganging up on people but waiting out the result of their duel and then engaging.

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