Its fun to be a mage in Wicked? Because

Wicked Feedback
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Prologue

I have a friend who’s been a mage for 100 hours and isn’t happy. He loves the game and its concept (we’ve both been playing it since it was created), however, he’s not having a good time as a “mage,” and as a “warrior” or melee player, I had to try being a mage, and frankly, it wasn’t fun at all either (given that I have over 190 hours of play).

I want to make it clear that this post is for players who are in Path of the Unspoken and at plague level 2 or 4 (especially 4).

Why being a mage in Wicked isn’t fun

THERE ARE NO RANGE ATTACKS

There are no range attacks on any weapon that generates focus. Therefore, the concept of being a mage is already ambiguous and formless.

YOU HAVE TO BE A WARRIOR TO GENERATE FOCUS

There are four ways to gain focus, and none of them are satisfactory in a boss fight or in a fight with 4+ monsters.

  1. Hitting with basic attacks generates a very small amount of focus and doesn’t reward rune use.
  2. Parrying attacks when there are multiple targets becomes impossible, and if you don’t generate focus this way, there’s no way to be a “mage” since there are no runes to use or ranged attacks, so parrying falls into the “maybe” category of generating focus.
  3. Consuming life through focus (Rune) generates a very small amount, and considering that a mage must have a lot of focus, it takes too long to regenerate all focus (here it seems as if the player is a sort of necromancer, and it becomes tedious to do this in every encounter and inappropriate to do during a fight).
  4. Regeneration gems (simply not)

INTELLECT SHOULD GENERATE MORE FOCUS

Let’s accept the fact that all mages have to be “battlemasters,” then let’s consider the intellect stat as a tool for exclusive weapons that use intelligence, which generate a considerable amount of Focus per hit when hitting.

This also applies to shields that use intelligence; when blocking, they will generate a large amount of Focus, so the mage can use more runes (which is the idea) instead of fighting in close combat like a warrior.

Conclusion

I think they should implement weapons like wands or staffs that attack from a distance using stamina, so they can generate focus in a way that’s comfortable for a mage and feel like one.
Make the mage feel like playing a mage, not a battlemage.
It’s neither satisfying nor fun to play this way.

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There’s actually several. A lot of them are runes you can rip off wands but there’s also ranged attacks in at least some of the wand movesets. I haven’t tested them all but the ice one I got in my most recent playthrough shot ice after a sprint attack. Might be weird to sprint before every attack but it’s just an option, as I said there are stamina based runes.

Overall your points are already in the game, I just don’t think you knew how to find them. When trying a new weapon consider trying out a light combo, sprint combo, roll combo, and if the weapon has one, a charged combo. They often give the weapon different attack styles. A wand might stab with lights, slash in a small aoe on a dodge roll, or shoot projectiles on a sprint!

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Thanks for answering, friend!

Well, yes, I know. There’s a rune, or several (I’ve only seen one, and look, I’ve played over 200 hours, and so has my friend, and we haven’t even seen the first weapon that attacks from range, nor a wand, staff, or anything (just the bow, because it’s obvious). The essence of a mage is to attack from a distance, not to be melee (unless there’s no other option or you want to parry).

I find it boring and monotonous, and at the same time, generating focus with a rune attack from a distance (the one that costs 25 stamina), the ice one, counterproductive. Because it simply has nothing to do with the warrior in terms of killing and having fun; it’s not even close to a rewarding experience. That’s what my complaint is about.

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The mage style they seem to be going for in this is more of a “bender” or monk. You beat stuff up and cast magic as you go. Balancing a game like this around full range is difficult because either you allow the player to run around shooting and not getting hit, or you try to counter that by adding a bunch of ranged attacks to the enemies…but then that makes life for the melee players more difficult because they keep getting shot. There’s a couple characters that have ranged counters, like the brutes will throw spears and such at you. But it’s not common. If they add more ranged counters, I could see them adding more ranged attacks. But as is the enemies are designed around melee being the majority of the fighting.

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OK bro… I don’t want to be insulting, but not sure there is any other way to put this lol.

If you played for 200 hours and never figured out how to play mage without needing to build-focus, that is a skill issue. They recently made a change that allows the basic skills like Fireball, Firedart, etc etc to build focus. But even before that,it was possible to set it up as a ranged play style.

I’ll give you an example… Fire Blast on Molten Clutch (which btw has a ranged firebolt on 2-taps for no focus which could kill enemies outright before the patch). Other runes on the wand, Channel, Blink, Converging Flame. Life-steal on your weapon (and Bow or Shield also).

  • Channel to Fill up your Focus (300-450 is a good amount), leaving your HP around 40-50%.
  • Use Fire Blast. Kills enemy most times, and fills back up your HP either way. You’ll also get back 15-30 Focus (15 from Helm Build-up enchant, 15 from Focus on Kill)
  • When your Focus is about half, or if you just feel like it, use Channel to top it back up to full.

This is the game play loop, and you never have to melee for any Focus.

For Bosses, you’re starting with Full Focus, and can likely murder them in a couple of Volleys from Converging Flame. If not, use food made from Fish which gives Focus to give you a lil focus bump if needed.

You literally never actually need to melee. Though I did anyways because Molten Clutch firebolt could kill things at range without having to use focus.

Same loop for Cold Mage like with Frost Stream. And that one is even easier to sustain Focus.

You can easily play mage without Focus building from weapon attacks. You and your friend just didn’t know how and never figured it out.

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You should try this challenge! Imagine playing in a Level 4 Plague – a highly difficult setting – equipped with an ice wand and a shield. Now, add an affix that completely drains your focus (a crucial resource) every time you use an ability. On top of that, your attacks deal reduced damage to enemies with over 50% health.

I also encountered a frustrating bug: there’s a rune that’s supposed to consume stamina, but the game seems to mistakenly deduct focus instead. This means any focus you manage to build up is instantly lost.

In short, with these specific affixes, you hit enemies less effectively, which in turn makes it incredibly difficult to build focus. Even taking combat stances or consuming food that provides 50 focus barely helps. I’d love for you to try this against The Riven Twins boss. With them, if you don’t perfectly parry their attacks, you simply won’t gain any focus, no matter what! It makes for an incredibly challenging, and sometimes frustrating, experience.
Play under those conditions and tell me if you have fun.

P.S. all that without the ring of determination or battlecry ring.

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This is basically what I’m talking about; the combat experience as a warrior is infinitely more rewarding than that of a mage (especially when using Focus).

I’ve also tried the challenge you present, and it’s simply boring, slow, unfun, and even frustrating; it doesn’t compare to when I use my swords, maces, and even axes.

I’d like to see Thegrantrithor try it; I’m 100% sure he won’t have a good time.

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I have literally previously outlined how to customize the corruption list so you can get 10 affixes that do not hinder your build. Works for any build you prefer to use. I do Plague 4 Pestilence runs with 10 mods all the time. And I do not use those unique rings. I didn’t when they were broken/OP, and I don’t now.

Taking an affix that deletes your focus as a mage on purpose, is like taking one that removes all your stamina as a melee character. You have a choice. If you choose to make it difficult for yourself by deliberately taking the corruption that makes playing your mage nigh impossible, that is another matter altogether. But still, a choice.

If like the other user, you also did not know how to do this. The issue there is on your knowledge or expertise, not on the mechanics of mage play or the Pestilence mode.

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i totally get what youre saying, but what you described is basically the oneshot meta build, RoD or not, which you dont need 400focus for btw, you need like 150-200, depending on the other abilities you use.
Its literally the only viable way to play mage atm.
Problem is it is also the most boring build available. filling your focus before every fight, or dont even have to because one press of a button deletes most enemies is just not fun, at least for me.
I play this purely as my farmchar as its the easiest way to get all kinds of resources and clearing pestilence fast, but idk how rewarding it is to play this. If thats a fun way to play for you, all good. but you cant deny the original poster has valid points.

The same style ice build doesnt do as much dmg by a large margin, also if you have 400 focus and ur filling it up with channel alone youre not ending up at 50% hp, you end up at 1%, i do this everytime i start a run and i regen in my bed right afterwards. Not a big deal but it also interrups any flow if you constantly need to channel.

yes the possibility is there, also you can do the exact same thing with shock, it doesnt rly matter, but having like one viable way to play a mage is exactly what he complains about.

Its just not fun, you cant experiment, like theres a hundred different builds for melee that are all viable and even not playing a “real build” will get you through the game as melee easy.
As a mage its just a pain in the ass, and this didnt get better with the stamina runes, it got worse.

also, by 2tap i guess you mean like the second attack of molten clutch?
also what a “great” thing to have. why not make this second attack the first then.
theres multiple other wands that have some kind of ranged attack, even if its the “finisher” of the X-attack combo, but i mean i personally dont want to go through a game attacking the air 3 times, just so my last attack does a dart, which in turn then spends 4 times stamina for attacks. ( also on some wands they flatout removed the “finishing” magic attack with the new patch, others like the clutch got even buffed. idk who does these weird decisions tbh )

Again, if you think thats fun, go for it.
But im definitely with Daniel here, mage imo is not fun to play, cause its just super limited compared to the other styles.
And the fact that the new patch wanted to implement mage style play in a better way, when in fact it does the opposite is also a fail in my eyes but well see what the future brings.

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I don’t play any one-shot builds. For the same reason I never used RoD etc.

With Reduction gems, things like Fire Blast costs 37-39 Focus, which you get back most of in regular enemy encounters. And you’re not channeling from empty. It takes a long time to use up half your Focus on enemies other than a boss.

Molten Clutch’s move set does a jab, catching enemies off guard and closing distance, then the firebolt follows with a jump back putting you back out of harm’s way. You seem to think everyone who plays mage never wants to engage the enemy at all, and that every weapon should be a sniper.

But it’s getting a lil exhausting to keep explaining how to not be bad at mage play lol. Gamer’s these days don’t try to figure how to be better at the game. They instead insist the game needs to be better at them…

I have so many variations on my mage. Yet you’re there saying X is the only viable way to play lol. Lord forbid some of you recognize you could actually have room to improve, or you could very well be bad at something. Or there are things you don’t know. It’s always the game’s fault you aren’t a superstar.

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Jolly, nothing to say but, thanks

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first of all, i never said im a superstar and comparing your posts to mine, theres literally only one guy who tries to be a superstar here but nvm.

second i never said every weapon should be a sniper, i actually said exactly the opposite, but sure dude, whatever floats your boat.

also never said its too hard or theres only one viable way to play, i just said the changes took the fun out of most playstyles, for me at least. ( hint: its called an opinion )

also never denied theres room to improve for me, didnt even touch that subject tbh, but you seem to be awfully good at reading things into stuff that nobody ever said while not gettin any point.

and yes, pls dont get exhausted, i never asked you to explain anything, so youre complaining about what you yourself decided to do, idk, seems a little over the top, no need to go all hulk on me here.

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Hoping the class/combat rework does something better for mages.

Making a couple of good spells into really crappy stamina runes that take up a precious limited rune slot just to have the equivalent of a ranged attack chain, except it isn’t because it’s just spamming the same stamina rune with no actual chain of animations, was a pretty mediocre bandaid.

Mages need their proper ranged attack animations on the staff and wand normal attack sequences, not a band aid on a stamina rune that barely does any damage, actually less than a regular staff/wand attack, and takes up a rune slot on top.

It would be cool if their dodge was a blink by default, even if shorter/half the range of normal blink, and their parry had a magical shield animation.

It just feels like in this game the gameplay was made for melee knights and rogues first, and mages and archers were just an afterthought.

You can even see it in the armors, plate has variety and looks cool, while all cloth armor is basically peasant NPC costumes or bandit costumes with maybe 2-3 unique caster looking sets that aren’t a copy paste of an npc’s attire.

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I believe it wasn’t made to deal DMG..

I believe it was made for generating Focus as an additional option instead of only having to go melee up close?

So now you can be a mage and cast some spells that cost stamina instead of focus to generate focus and elemental buildup.

At the end of the day that is players choice, you decide if you want to use it or not.

If it doesn’t suit your build then you can replace it.

Yeah I can agree to that.

An idea would be that we can change a weapons normal attack sequence, where we can mix and match different normal attack sequences together.
Or
A utility rune/button to switch between melee and ranged normal attack sequences on staff/wand?

I still want to be able to attack with a staff as a melee monk and no I don’t want to have to find a staff that can only be used for melee that would just limit build possibilities :rofl:

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Would probably be best if they tied certain weapon animations to their upcoming class system.

That way it flags xyz moveset if you’re a monk/martial artist subclass or abc moveset for mage/wizard/sorc/cleric types.

I just want the classes to feel more magical as an option.

Right now it feels like mages are given the leftovers of what is primarily a melee centric design.

I also say this because rune attacks eventually will need to be nerfed. There is no way they will survive doing 1/3-1/2 a boss’s hp and so when the time comes where you’re spending more time doing regular attack chains because you’re not 2-3 tapping bosses, you want the visual and immersive aspects to be there as a mage player.

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Thats exactly the point! Thanks!

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As you said, this game is not friendly to ranged attacks, whether it’s wands or bows, developers may encourage players to engage in close combat. The attack method of the wand is not much different from other melee weapons, and its focus acquisition does not have any additional rewards. The focus consumption of wand’s runes is usually high. Not to mention the bow, it has become a secondary weapon.

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A bit late to the party hope that @Daniel_Rosales reeds this.

Since in this game each weapon has its own mooverst it makes more sense to talk about specific weapons in my opinion.

Maybe I’m in the minority but the current “combat mage” playstyle is very fun if you use the right weapons. In particular I find the mooveset of the Starting Staff, the Ice Staff sold by Eleonor and the Key-shaped Wand are very cool.

Almost all wands movesets are terrible and most staff are boring in terms of movesets.

I have more than 500 hours on NRFTW, I played the game several times from the beginning to the end with different builds, the “combat mage” builds are among the ones I liked the most, along with the Claymore, the Pig Sticker +(old) bow and Hunter’s Knife + (new) bow.

I think it’s fair to say that “true wizards” haven’t been introduced into the game yet.

The Attempt that was made with the runes that cost stamina was executed poorly.

Transforming the two runes, technically there are 8 because there are 4 variations of each for each element but in practice there are 2 the Elemental Ball (staffs) & Elemental Bullet (Wands), into stamina at the cost of damage is not a good idea.

The animations, the timing, and the range that the runes have were designed to deal the damage of a 50 focus rune, and if you reduce the damage they cannot function as an “alternative basic attack” only because they consume stamina,

because the animations are slow and are designed for them to be used at the right time, not as a basic attack, which is particularly problematic for the “Elemental Ball” more than the “Elemental Bullet”, since charging it no longer makes sense since it does little damage anyway and so it is worth using it twice to gain more focus, but in any case entebbe are too slow and sluggish to be used as a basic attack (the elemental ball also has too much range and allows you to camp the enemies in some situations).

In my opinion, there should be runes that cost magic for wizards, but they should be designed as such from the start (and they should also bring the current runes back to costing 50 focus since they are not as fun as they were before), I would also implement mage wands and staffs with basic ranged attacks.

How I would implement ranged mage runes that cost Stamina:

I would make runes that cost less stamina and have a fast animation (like a basic staff attack) that cast a spell that has a certain limited range (i.e. a bit more than the range of a spear, and the range of an uncharged arrow).

In general, the faster the projectile (by “projectile” I mean like a ball of fire or a shard of ice etc.) is, the less damage it does to compensate, but I think the most important thing is to limit the range so that the focus you gain and the damage you do is not “free” but you still have to put yourself at risk. It is important to find the right balance between range, attack animation, shot speed, damage, and focus gain, to make the player feel like a Real Mage, not a camping mage who casts spells from a distance without any risk nor one who casts spells in melee range.

For example more range faster projectile, but slower attack animation more stamina less damage, less range slower projectile, but faster attack animation less stamina more damage…

The simplest middle of the bunch Rune would be a projectile which has a little more range than a spear that travels a little slower than a fireball in a straight line but is slightly attracted to enemies with a slightly faster motion than that of a spear but doing slightly less damage than a spear.

(The reason the projectile should be slow is to give the illusion that it has more range than it actually does. The fact that the projectile is slow, however, makes it likely that it won’t hit enemies, so the projectile should magnify enemies a bit (not so much that it hits enemies even when they dodge, just enough so that it hits enemies normally like any other attack)).

The one with more range would be similar to the current stamina rune of the wands, with a little less range and less stamina consumption and a faster animation.

The very low range version would launch 3 bubbles that travel very slowly with a fast animation like that of a rapier, and the range is similar to a rapier, consumes the stamina of a one-handed katana and has the DPS of a dagger.

Obviously keep in mind that these are extreme cases, and the real mage would be more in the center like the first rune I described at least with more range than a rapier but certainly less range of the rune that makes you throw a weapon like a boomerang.

How I would implement mage wands and staffs with basic ranged attacks:

I would combine the attacks with a projectile so that with the same movement that you usually attack with the weapon you also cast a short range spell, so if you want you can also always be ranged but if you go melee it does more damage and you get more focus because you also hit with the weapon.

The characteristics of the projectile of these attacks are the same as those mentioned above Balanced between: range, speed, stamina etc.

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Lombi, you hit the point just right. Cant agree more with what you just said. I hope this feedback from true lovers of games, reach Thomas crew, so every class has their own personality.,

Thanks for taking your time, its appreciated mate.

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