Duping, exploits, file manipulations is very widespread, to a point where it’s hard to find randoms with genuine characters to run endgame content with.
Currently tools are being developed that make these exploits even more accessible to a wider user base
The availability of these methods make any “honest” (endgame) progression absolutely meaningless..
NRFTW needs s system that prevents cheating and file manipulation for multiplayer modes.
Edit: since the words “anti-cheat" triggered some people i rephrased the title and post.
Edit 2: to further clarify: this proposition concerns only multiplayer modes. I’m not concerned with people doing whatever in Singleplayer or some kind of opt-in multiplayer
Yeah, just make the game impossible to mod(including visual or qol mods) or run on MacOS/Linux, great idea.
All because you don’t want to be bothered finding your own group of like-minded players. Just go to a discord fan server or steam forums and find someone who shares your gameplay phisolophy.
There are anti-cheat implementations that do not screw Linux players, though they tend to be ineffective or online-only, which has its own pitfalls.
Anti-cheat could be exclusive to multiplayer. Remote realms are online-only[1], so I could imagine ‘remote characters’ being an effective counter to save manipulation and duping.
That said, while I find the tone of Zenith’s reply unnecessarily combative, I agree that Wicked is not designed around playing with ‘randoms’. Multiplayer anti-cheat would cost money and locking characters to multiplayer would be inconvenient for honest players.
Though they can be converted back to singleplayer. ↩︎
Im not against it, but implementing such a thing as an Anti-Cheat too soon in Early Access isnt a very wise thing to do, if you know about Anti-Cheat Debt?
Even though in my case you’re, to a point, preaching to the choir and I’d prefer less cheating, the following valid concerns exist:
kernel-level implementations are entirely inacceptable (OS compatibility issues, privacy/security choice not to allow software arbitrary access to my files)
most anti-cheat methods are ineffective, especially over time as askan94 says; it’s an arms race
modding is made more difficult; this includes accessibility tools and borders on the discussion that I should be able to enjoy single-player games the way I’d like
it costs server money and dev time (ongoing)
it makes switching between single- and multiplayer harder if implemented as server-side validation
it may degrade performance
people may, in non-competitive environments, wish to cheat for testing purposes or as a personal choice; I am not hurt by this choice, only their own enjoyment is hurt (and perhaps the longevity of games in which grinding is the only content, a category to which Wicked thankfully does not belong)
there may be false positives, costing money through support for appeals
Finally, in light of the game being meant for playing with known friends, not competitively, there definitely is no need to ‘level a playing field’.
I might argue differently if random or competitive arena battles or MP were in this game. They’re not, and I maintain this is good.
As someone who plays single player, I’ve gotta’ say I disagree. If I want to mod the game I bought, I should be allowed to.
If you want some sort of “offline mode” for mods, that makes sense, keep people out of multiplayer, but what I do in my single player game doesn’t affect you.
Let people play the way they want to play, at least in single player modes.
I agree that we are going to need an anti-mod system.
The feature where someone converts an existing realm to a shared out, that either needs rigorous checks to ensure it hasn’t been modified, or online/shared realms need to be created on the dev’s servers from the start; so you can create a shared Realm, not convert a local one.
Same with characters… if you create a local character, it needs to stay local. Because taking modded characters and items online, is going to create a mess. Especially with the duel system they have in mind.
Moon is trying hard to create a really good and unique game, but they are re-inventing the wheel on many things, aspects, and problems that have cropped up ages past in gaming, been identified as problems/issues for other games, and have been solutioned already.
The only place mods should be banned is PvP or any online mod. Makes no sense to ban it anywhere else, and the solution to prevent banning beyond this level often result in performance drops in the game (and are still flawed).
Hey, author of the linked save editor here Figured it made sense to drop my own thoughts.
I released the tool because I believe in the right to mod software that we own, and because I think that there’s value in giving people the possibility to play around with the game in the way that makes them happy, especially when they (as many of us nowadays) don’t have all the time in the world to play. And, based on the responses that I have received, some players are happy, indeed, of the chance to try out some new build ideas or change the appearance of their character or whatnot.
This is not a multiplayer competitive game. There is no reward to inviting randos online and winning PvP duels, as far as I know. It is a multiplayer co-op game, which implies that you should know and trust and be able to communicate with the people you play with.
@Antura you’ve mentioned “imagine elden ring or other games like this would just let you…”, right? If you googled “Elden Ring Save Editor”, I feel you would have a pretty good answer to that.
It’s important to state that I believe that it is wrong to join a multi-player game with random players, and doing so with an edited character or modded client without their consent. I do, because that may ruin the experience for other gamers. But the modding community is not to blame for that, instead those players should be blamed. Even without mods, they could join the game and ruin the experience in other ways.
Also, worth mentioning: trainers and mods for this game existed way before I released the tool.
The irony is that this post made it easier for me to do save editing for experimentation and bug reports. Thanks for linking the relevant tool in the main post!
Do you ever do anything other than complain, lie, and act so passive-aggressive? Anyway, he is 100% right, and you are 100% wrong,as always, just in case you were wondering.
Figured it made sense to drop my own thoughts.