First Preview of our Class System

While in this post there are interesting weapons introduced, I doubt that completely switch to a strict class system is an overkill of the current issue.

To my understanding, Class System is a design choice on MMO for easier balancing and for better Roles definition.
In a Single/Co-op game like NRFTW, player should be able to freely define their character, and their playstyle, especially player’s skill is a big factor on character’s power.

Most of the current Attribute system work fine, the only issue are the 4 main attributes (damage scalers):

They are called Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence & Faith, people have expectations on these names, but currently these attributes only scale damage requires said attribute. This is ok tech-wise, but the issue lays on the disconnection between these attributes and corresponding playstyle!

For example:
Dual-daggers have Dex based, and Str/Dex based, but even they have unique weapon combo, their fighting styles are similar that player can’t tell why one need Str and the others don’t.
There are fighter weapon with an Elemental theme requires Int as a hybrid requirement, while another fighter weapon also has Elemental theme requires Faith instead!

These happens to almost all weapons’ requirement and comfused the player, they save up attribute points to a point they finally got the weapon they need.

Even then, players are unsure that the next upgrade of the same weapon type & style require the same set of attributes!

These broke the impression links between Weapon Style and the Main Attributes. These Main Attributes maybe better just called Damage Scaler A B C D so player don’t get comfused by the name.

Attributes are a system for player to define style of the character, even these attributes do not carry their own unique value in the system as it is now, they should strictly related to the fighting style of weapons the requires them, so player can safely add points into said Main Attributes, knowing when weapons of said requirements drop, they know this weapon is in the general direction of their preferred style.

Conclusion
Main Attributes need a stronger link with Weapon Style they represented! Every Attribute combination have every weapon styles just not fit with the defination of said Attributes.

Below are my opinion about Main Attributes and their related Weapon Style:
This is similer to Class System, but purely definded by Main Attributes

Pure Attribute
:flexed_biceps: Strength - Brute Force Fighters

  • Heavier, generally Slower single hit
  • Come with a Physical Charge Attack
  • Built-in Big Hit Attack Rune
  • Shields with Higher Stagger Damage on Block

Ex: Great Swords/Hammers etc (2H Heavy Melee weapon), Long Bows (Requires brute force to fully drawn (Army’s style)), Heavy Shield

:leg: Dexterity - Agile Fighters

  • Lighter, generally Faster combos
  • No Charge Attack unless paired with Strength
  • Mostly with Multi-hit weapon combo
  • Mostly with Multi-hit Attack Rune
  • Can Dodge-Cancel Attacks at the Beginning and at the End of the attack animation
  • Shields with Higher Movement

Ex: Rapiers, Daggers, Dual-Daggers, Claws etc (rely on Pin-Point Precise Attacks to deal damage), Short Bows (Quick Releases with less damage deal (Legolas’s style :laughing:)), Buckler (Light-weight Small Shield)

:man_mage: Intelligence - Spell Caster, Elemental focus

  • Weaker Physical damage, average Attack Speed, generally Higher Focus Gain on weapon hit
  • Weapon Combos with Magical Finisher
  • Come with Attacking Spell Runes (Mostly Elemental)
  • Off-hand with Higher Elemental Resistances or Temporary Barrier

Ex: Wands, Staves, Tome

:palms_up_together: Faith - Cleric

  • Blunt Weapons with Supportive Runes
  • Shield with Higher Plague Resistance

Ex: Maces, Hammers

Hybrid
:flexed_biceps: Strength + :leg: Dexterity - Dualist

  • Lesser hit than pure Strength but with Multi-hit weapon combo
  • Has Charge Attack
  • May have Evasion-based Attack Rune

Ex: 1/2H Curved Swords (Light-Weight Swords that swing fast but require some Strength to deal damage)

:flexed_biceps: Strength + :man_mage: Intelligence - Armored Elemental Fighter

  • Built-in Elemental Infusion with Hard-hitting Rune
  • Greater Elemental Attack Runes
  • Spell-like Charge Attack (Elemental)
  • Slightly Higher Focus Gain on weapon hit
  • Shield with Higher Elemental Resistances

Ex: Mystic Swords (Swords with Elemental damage theme), Midium Shields

flexed_biceps: Strength + :palms_up_together: Faith - Holy Fighters

  • Heavy Blunt Weapons similar to Strength
  • Focus more on Poise / Stagger Damage
  • With Defensive Enchantment Rune
  • Shield with Higher Poise / Stagger Resistances

Ex: Maces/Hammers, Tower Shields

:leg: Dexterity + :man_mage: Intelligence - Spellblades

  • Built-in Elemental Infusion with Evasion-based Attack Runes
  • Multihits Elemental Attack Runes
  • Spell-like Charge Attack (Elemental)
  • Slightly Higher Focus Gain on weapon hit
  • Can socket Lesser Spell Runes
  • Shield with Higher Movement and Temporary Barrier

Ex: Mystic Daggers, Mystic Rapiers, Mystic Buckler

:leg: Dexterity + :man_mage: Intelligence - Assissan

  • Have Movement Attack Runes or Multihits Attack Runes
  • May have Plague theme
  • Built-in Backstab Damage

Ex: Daggers, Katar

:leg: Dexterity + :palms_up_together: Faith - Martial Artist

  • Blunt Fist Weapon
  • Ranged Attack Runes
  • Evasion-based Attack Runes

Ex: Gauntlets

Ex: Hex Rods, Bonestaves, Scythes
:man_mage: Intelligence + :palms_up_together: Faith - Unholy Spell caster

  • Plague Spells Runes
  • Undead Summon Runes
  • Curse Runes

Ex: Hex Rods, Bonestaves, Scythes

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Just throwing my two cents in: I appreciate there is discussion over what to do with attributes and classes/class archetypes, but ultimately I stand by two things:

  • class archetypes should merely be that, archetypes. ultimately you are free to invest in what you want, and there should be benefits and drawbacks to leaning really hard into a single stat/archetype, and doing a more all-rounder/jack of all trades/more complex build setup that involves “off meta” combinations. and that tradeoff SHOULD NOT be related damage by the way, or should not just be damage to the point it makes one of those options far more enticing than the other.
  • building off that first point, not only should your archetype be determined by your stats, but your playstyle/your archetypes playstyle should be (much more significantly) determined by stats. Ie, stat dump attributes that don’t do anything but raise a damage number on a weapon. If the Brute “class” is supposed to play a certain way like be tanky, slow, hard hitting, high life, high equip load, etc, then investing in strength should benefit some/all of those things. Levelling should be a game of oppurtunity cost where nearly every attribute has some value to every build, and you have to decide between levelling stats that benefit youre playstyle more (specializing) or covering your weaknesses by investing in lower stats (generalizing).
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I would rather you make have less classes but have multiple weapons available for them.

For example the Warrior archetype can use all physical melee and ranged weapons, so any time they pick up a sword or a bow, they get points towards being a Warrior. But at the same time, if the player picks up a mace, not only will the Warrior path get points but say the Paladin and Cleric will as well. Bows will allow for Warrior, Rogue/Thief/Assassin and Ranger. So on and so forth.

In MY mind (And maybe I’m wrong) allowing for multiple weapons for each ‘class’ it’ll allow for more build diversity and choice for players.

What if they want a paladin who goes Great Sword on his main, but Sword and Shield as a back up option? Or maybe someone wants to play a twin dagger Warrior? You can. And if players want to try a differing class, but similar weapons? That option is there too.

Am I making sense?

Why does the game need classes?!
That list doesn’t show any advantage, only restrictions to player choice.
And can they be changed? Or are they merely added to force rerolls?!

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well i’m casual player lol ofc i’m not game designer.
if you want make money and reach casual player.
beside patch 1 thomas do alot of QOL lmao.
→ resocket gem (more build more theorycraft) => fixed in patch 1
→ More loot (i dont want risk my limb and food to get a single POTATO) => he fixed it in patch 1
→ More flexible (rescoket gem + resocket rune + rune utility) => he fixed in patch 1

well thomas literally do what i’m voice.
stop being EDGY bruh you want sell the game sell to cascual gamer like me.
so i can recommend to my friends your choice.

You guys seriously need to get off discord and reddit and realize you’re in a public forum with adults and people of all ages. Why the vulgar language and childish expressions? This is something you do with friend groups; you wouldn’t talk like this in a public gathering face to face.

well he attack me first i only raise my opinion and feedback.
tit for tat

Could you give an example of an ability and a trait? And how does the choice affect weapon usage?

Are you guys shooting for these changes with patch 1 or further down the line? Really like the look of these, but something that will probably need to get out to the community ASAP for testing as this is a pretty big change to the game.

To all the Mystics out there, lets RISE UP!

This system will only be introduced with 1.0 - We’ll take some time to refine all this, test it on PTR and make sure it’s an insane improvement over the current system before we release it :slight_smile:

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Completely unrelated, but I have spoke to a few YouTubers that have told me they’ve requested reviewer key to review the game and have not had a respond.

Is this something you guys do or not?

That’s surprising. I would’ve thought it would be very hard to update the game at all with plans to change progression into a class system from where it is. It seems that so much around future updates should be balanced and made around the class system without throwing it in at the end of development.

I know nothing about development though. However, if I imagine writing a book then trying to go back and change everything around character development to a new method after I finish. That sounds like a nightmare.

Either way, it’s good to know not to look for this any time soon. Now I can just play the game without wondering about it.

Great explain. I agree with you 100%.

I’m really looking forward to testing this new attribute and class scheme!! Wow 40 classes is a dream.

Great work so far!!

is there going to be lottery for testing branch or those people already been selected?

one of the reasons why i hugely enjoy NRFTW is because of it being classless specifically. poe started off essentially classless too but the game evolved in a way where players ended up having to specialize and hyper optimize their builds.

i would prefer if NRFTW made classes feel like bonuses rather than a requirement.

my suggestions:

  1. there are too many classes suggested that are too specific. dumb it down a huge lot.
  2. instead of downright classes, make them “class bonuses”. players get to choose 3 class bonuses and can mix and match
  3. anyone can access any class bonus, but they have to meet the requirements/restrictions.

example:

Classes

Knight

  • Requirements: Carryload 30
  • Restrictions: Must fully equip plate armor
  • Bonus: +10 base stamina regeneration, + 5 poise

Titan

  • Requirements: Strength 30
  • Restrictions: Can only equip non dual weilding melee 2 handed weapons
  • Bonus: Enemies are instantly killed when they reach 10% health

Apprentice

  • Requirements: Intelligence 30 AND Wisdom 30
  • Restrictions: NONE
  • Bonus: Weapons that do not gain bonus damage from Intelligence, now do. The same applies for Wisdom.

This creates an interesting dynamic where players will theorycraft 1001 different class combinations and trying to work around any restrictions. Some bonuses can be highly specific to a certain playstyle, while some can be more general and provide utility.

Also, upgraded classes can be a thing for example “supreme titan” where the requirement could be boosted to 50 but the bonus could be extended to 20%. i would also add that care should be taken so that stat requirements should maybe cap at around 50 so that players are encouraged to mix and match rather than fully specialize.

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I think the current system is too versatile to change.

Currently you can change builds at any time, switch between heavy and light armor at will, scale your favorite attribute to change weapons at any time. And this is amazing !!!

I would prefer to implement it with a beginner part, meaning the statue in the Crucible would be presented at the beginning of the game and I could fuse equipment from Eleanor to get gems and embers, a random number not predetermined. Then, when I interact with the statue, it would suggest to the beginner player, in another “window”, the cost in embers to change attributes to change weapons or armor pieces. With other suggestions such as stamina, focus and carrying capacity and the relative ember’s cost to changing attributes.

We are still in Early Access, which makes this the best time to try out new things or a new direction.

But please be prepared to walk back on this changes or make changes in a different direction if it doesn’t work out.

I think this is such a bad idea. People play so many hours to make multiple builds with gear to match. It’s like chasing the core player base away. All this could be avoided by putting hints in the right places for players to make sure they have the right stats for the weapon and allowing them to respec earlier in the starting area.

So Bizarre.

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The problem with your current idea is how restrictive it is. If you want to be something, you HAVE to pick that weapon associated. Let’s say someone wants to play a sword and board character with Mesh armour, there’s no option for that, currently. A double dagger assassin in Leather. Nope, no can do.

You need to have less classes, but wider variance in weapon and armour. Sometimes less really is more.

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