A Test to see if Weapon Visuals and their Stat Scaling match your expectations

[RomoloHero]

Hello!

I invite both players and developers to take this small test.

If you don’t to read this wall of text that’s fine just scroll down to the test itself, this just adds some insight from my POV as a player.

Preface

There has been a lot of talk about the classless system, weapon’s and attributes. On X people made it clear that they wanted Maximum Roleplay Freedom. So did I, I voted for that as well. Even though I have made a few posts about some issues.

I think some of the issues innately stem from a mismatch between a players expectation when finding a weapon and it’s stat scaling.

The Classless System

I love this system since it allows for maximum roleplay freedom and has build in replayability.

Now most people when playing an RPG will have some kind of class idea. And this system facilitates that. However, with some weapons there is some cognitive dissonance more on that later.

What happens is the following:

I want to play as X class, let’s say a Paladin since it’s easy to imagine.
What stats would I need to facilitate this out of Strength, Dexterity, Faith and Intelligence. Most of us, I would assume, would think Strength/Faith or pure Faith.

You then get something like this:

Strength: Warrior, Knight, Barbarian, Samurai
Dexterity: Ninja, Rogue, Swashbuckler, Ranger, Rogue, Duelist
Intelligence: Pyromancer, Frost Witch, Alchemist
Faith: Cleric, Priest, Druid, Monk
Strength/Dexterity: Warrior, Samurai, Wayfarer, Champion, Barbarian
Strength/Intelligence: Magic Knight, Death Knight (Frost)
Strength/Faith: Paladin, Crusader, Druidic Knight
Dexterity/Intelligence: Spell Blade, Magic Archer, Bard
Dexterity/Faith: Holy Slayer/Assassin, Witch Hunter
Intelligence/Faith: Priest, Druid

And so on, different people might have different interpretations. And the they should have. There needs to be something for everyone. Which means some Great swords are not for Strength users but for Intelligence users. That’s great.

Some people imagine a Druid to be pure Faith another imagines Faith/Intelligence or a hybrid with Strength maybe. And that should be fine.

However, I do believe some weapons have a visual mismatch with their scaling stats. Overall I believe 90-95% of weapons are fine, there are just some that are a bit weird. Or maybe it’s just me.

The Test

This is a small 6 item test, where I think 3 items do it right and 3 items could use some revisioning.

Below the Test are my thoughts and some feedback.

Instructions

1. I will be showing some pictures of some hand-held items (5 weapons, 1 shield).
2. Look at the picture and imagine what class would use that weapon and what stat attributes you would associate with it.
3. Look at the stat scaling, name and description. Now imagine if this matches your expectations.
4. Reply by posting the class, stat you imagined for the items, and your thoughts, make sure to refer correctly. Example: Picture 69, Knight, Strength, Nice!
5. Please no comments on the values of the scaling and be nice!

START

Picture 1:

Picture 1 Description:

Picture 2:

Picture 2 Description:

Picture 3:

Picture 3 Description:

Picture 4:

Picture 4 Description:

*Don’t comment about the stat requirements please… However, I do think this weapon is the perfect example of Faith/Intelligence done excellently.

Picture 5:

Picture 5 Description:

Picture 6:

Picture 6 Description:

END

My thoughts:

Picture 1:

Class: Druid
Scaling: Strength/Faith
Thoughts: The weapon is a obviously a 2-Handed Druid Hammer. Name, description and visuals all match the weapon fantasy. Pure Faith scaling is fine with me, If I were to make a druid it would be pure Faith anyways. And if I had to respec I wouldn’t mind it too much.

Picture 2:
Class: German Zweihander Knight, Scottish Highlander, Warhammer Age of Sigmar Great Sword Infantry.
Scaling: Strength
Thoughts: I think there is a missmatch between the visuals and the description. Having a 2-Handed great sword for Intelligence users is fine, especially reading the description. I would make them two separate weapons. I know ‘‘Freiheit’’ is also a German Zweihander but I still feel like the look is too much of a traditional 2-Handed sword. For the description I am maybe expecting a weapon with a blade made of jagged ice.

Picture 3:
Class: Swashbuckler, Duelist
Scaling: Dexterity
Thoughts: Looking at the description I am thinking even more about Dexterity. This is also a Legendary Weapon is it being Intelligence/Faith hurts it quite a bit. I would be ecstatic when finding this as a Pirate/Duelist and then I would read the scaling . I feel like, since this is a Legendary it should have a broader appeal to players. And maybe have an alternative rapier for Faith/Intelligence hybrids.

Picture 4:
Class: Noble/Royal Knight
Scaling: Strength/Faith
Thoughts: Here I actually think the weapon and description are in perfect harmony. The weapon is a Cleric’s weapon, Cleric’s using Faith/Intelligence makes a lot of sense. I would adept my perspective here to the weapon and save it for a Cleric run. Fantastic weapon design and description match here!

Picture 5:
Class: Bandit Leader maybe
Scaling: Strength/Dexterity
Thoughts: I think this should have a more simple scaling since you can use this weapon for various roleplaying fantasies. Now if i read the description I am thinking of the weapon of some Frost Berserker. The scaling, description and rune all make sense then. I think the name and visuals don’t match the rest.

Picture 6:
Class: Paladin, Knight
Scaling: Strength or Strength/Faith
Thoughts: Matches my ideas of a tower shield perfectly. Would not mind respeccing to Strength/Faith if I was a pure Strength build.

Closing words and some feedback.

First of all thank you for taking the time to read this massive wall of text and participating if you have.

I think the system and freedom we have is fantastic, I get this excited maybe once or twice a year about a game and it actually living up to the hype. I can see myself playing this game over and over for years.

I just think that some weapons need some fine-tuning to better match their description and the expectations of some players. I posted a lot about this and since respeccing and testing weapons will be possible. A lot of issues of players will be resolved.

Again I think 90-95% of weapons and items are fine, there are just some outliers that could use some tweaking.

I don’t think all great swords should belong to Strength based players. But Strength based classes should have enough weapon variety to express themselves. I think that with more and more weapons being released this becomes a smaller issue, since there will be a higher chance of a players finding his ideal weapon.

Thanks for reading and apologies for the wall of text

What are your thoughts? Please share them below!

Edits: spelling, grammar and some additional closing thoughts.

[AspiringDev]

Here’s the problem with stat requirements. Take the 42 int great sword. That is the only great sword which scales exclusively off of int. What will your envisioned character wield until then, if the great sword is core to his “class”? I don’t it’s viable to have weapon variants for every tier, for every attribute combination, so this problem won’t go away. This is worsened by the fact that gear drops are random and a very limited number of weapons are sold by vendors. So much for freedom.

Just fuse the attributes into one called Prowess which weapons scale off of, and let the player imagine what that means for his character (high int, strength, etc.). If you truly want freedom, that’s how you get it.

But I suspect that this freedom will lead to the same meme that plagued Skyrim: the infamous sneak archer. Here it’ll probably be the heavy armor blinking dagger rogue. When there is nothing stopping you from picking whatever’s best, that’s where most players will go.

[RomoloHero]

@AspiringDev What your saying kinda goes beyond the intended scope of my OP.

I kinda agree with the following though:

@AspiringDev

gear drops are random and a very limited number of weapons are sold by vendors.

But let’s get back to my intended topic: the cognitive dissonance between some weapon visuals and their inherent stat scaling.

It is about the art style matching both the description and player expectations. I would prefer the topic to go about this particular issue and not the stat requirement value.

@RomoloHero

Please no comments on the values of the scaling

Now let me ask you something @AspiringDev Do you think the great sword matches the description. Personally, I think it would be best to create a new great sword that more accurately matches the description and have the greatsword in the picture be it’s own thing, thoughts?

Edit: grammar

[mindlesspuppet]

Every time I saw a big ass hammer drop I got excited and assumed it was going to be a strength weapon, silly me! Wisdom lifts hammers not muscles!

[AspiringDev]

But with no attributes, there would no longer be that cognitive dissonance. You’d be able to use whatever weapon looked best for your imagined role. That was my point, though I did stray off-topic a bit.

Assuming the attributes stay as they are, then I agree with you that some of the weapon scalings need to be looked at. Alternatively, particle effects could be added to the more magic-leaning weapons like that rapier and great sword.

[RomoloHero]

@AspiringDev

But with no attributes, there would no longer be that cognitive dissonance.

True, but you do lose a sense of commitment to your stats.

@AspiringDev

Alternatively, particle effects could be added to the more magic-leaning weapons like that rapier and great sword.

Exactly, this is the stuff I wanna see as well.

I also think some of the issues will go away as more and more weapons are added. You now have a healthy pool of weapons that have something for everyone. But, I do think it’s important that the weapons visuals still match stat expectations to an extent.

Although, I new issue will arise with more and more weapons. Weapon availability. The more niche builds/ideas will probably suffer from this the most. So they would have to add more ways to obtain weapons and gear.

[DankMemeGod]

These examples capture the issues well. I think many weapons were a result of Moon attempting to ensure every combination had a good amount of available weapons. There’s no issue with this but proper visuals had to be done. Ideally a player can see a weapon and have a good guess from a glance what the scaling will be. There will always be exceptions to this but as long as most are easily guessed then it’s within a good threshold.

Adding to this, visuals go a long way for justifying a mage wielding a two-handed sword. Most have seen shows where the mage gets a cool sword even if it doesn’t make sense for a mage to have one. Visuals do a lot of heavy lifting for the class fantasies people have in mind.