Might I suggest we start as a base class then ascend into a specialty maybe through running some kind of trial
I’m interested in change, but what I really want to try is a roleplay where I can wield a greatsword one-handed and still deal serious damage—like something straight out of Berserk. I imagine a character who, through fanatical dedication to basic strength training, pushes their STR beyond normal limits. Maybe they’ve even lost one arm, and through sheer willpower, they’ve learned to swing a two-handed sword with just one hand.
Also, is farming in the game yet? I’d be twice as excited if farm work could also contribute to character stat growth.
The attribute system make it so that you have total freedom of your build. If more freedom was really the aim, wouldn’t it be backwards to introduce pre allocated, pre determined class with additional restriction on what armor set it uses?
If Moon decided to push for this, @Nafiend is right, it will depend on how they implement it.
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I would create superclasses based on the attributes you want to use. The problem I immediately see is why a paladin or a barbarian cannot use a sword? Thus, I would think of hyper classes where you have access to those weapons if you go full strength. Think about this. I have a 100% strength hyperclass, a 75% strength and 25% Intelligence class, so on and so forth.
This way, as the level up happens, you adjust the level up accordingly, it starts on 1 and go on evolving as the hyperclass you have chosen at the start of the game automatically, which avoids people getting the wrong weapon. And don’t let people use the wrong weapon. This will create depth, people will have more choices if they don’t like a weapon, and give up the game because they have to restart it. Also, by showing the types of weapons he can use at the start and giving one of the people a choice would be perfect.
One last thing. You block the use of the chosen weapon based on the weapon level. This means you could use a heavy weapon since the beggining.
I don’t know where this idea is coming from.
Folks, if anything, the CURRENT ATTRIBUTE SYSTEMS lock you way more into one class. The new system we’re cooking up will not do that and you’ll be able to complement this one class with abilities from the other, etc. On top of that, we can allow players to mix and match skills way more easily this way. The intention isn’t to lock players into a class and then they can’t try new stuff, the exact opposite is the case.
Let’s look at a practical example: You find a weapon that scales with STR early on in your game and in order to increase your damage, you’ll now start putting points into STR. Now you find a great DEX weapon and with our current TryBeforeYouBuy system, you can try that weapon, but never at full effectiveness. In order to get that, you’d need to run the Crucible and unlock the Iron Corpus in order to respec your build.
So how does that system allow for more freedom and self expression? It doesn’t. And by the way, it doesn’t in Souls games or any other games that use these attribute systems either! How many playthroughs have I seen where people basically main their starter weapon all throughout their game when I watched people playing Souls games? Countless. And Souls games have been suffering from that issue ever since Demon’s Souls released in 2009. You can obviously claim that it’s a choice, but in that case, our choice is that we’d like players to be able to experience a bit more gear variety throughout their playthroughs.
All I’m asking for is that you folks give us the benefit of the doubt. I’ve read through all your comments and concerns very carefully and I’m not making the mistakes you folks think I’m making. So far, I have yet to read comment that makes me go: “Oh yeah, good point, the new system wouldn’t cover this.”
In many ways, Wicked is us betting on ourselves because we have a clear vision on how things could be done in a better way even if we have to abandon some old ideas that people have gotten used to. We have always challenged the Status Quo. We approach every element in our games this way. For example, we thought we could come up with a better combat system than what you see in Diablo, PoE, etc. and I think we did. And it’ll only get better.
With this, we think we can come up with a better system than the Attribute System and so we’ll do that and with some love and tuning, I’m certain we can achieve that goal.
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Based. We need to test the actual system before being sure of anything. This job system is literally a game-changer that can make or break the enjoyment of the game. For me, character expression is a big factor in the enjoyment of ARPGs, and I think that the attribute system is the most elegant way to let people achieve it.
The game is ultimately yours (thanks for the great and passionate work, by the way), but some problems are not just a question of the right solution but also involve tastes. I can’t say if I’ll like the new system or not, but I know it potentially can break my enjoyment of the game. Anyway, I believe you and your team are cooking something special with this game, and you should stick to what matters and makes sense to you. But also, the enjoyment of players is at risk here. Honestly, I need to test the system to know how it clicks with me, but from what you’ve shown so far, I have some apprehension (other people too, apparently).
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the root cause of the repetitive and echochambery discussion right now is the lack of details.
when something’s rather vague, the community starts speculating and making up what it means in their head based on what little they know.
it definitely gets under my skin seeing folks think these are hard classes, i can say that much.
i’m sure many would be happy to discuss the system more accurately once we have more info on it, so do share more as soon as you can.
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Apologies if the skill tree idea was not correct, I will update my last comment with a note.
I misunderstood this information from Discord:
Ashless 12/12/2024 19:16
also Thomas, is there any
how to say, basic idea of what “skill trees” gonna be like?thomasmahler replied 12/12/2024 19:17
Yes, but not happy with it yet. We’re generally reworking enchantments and so on.
In fact, you mentioned shortly after:
thomasmahler 12/12/2024 19:17
I don’t really believe in traditional skill trees
I made that mistake with Blind Forest
As in, you can only get this skill if you got the one before
It’s just too restrictive
I understand why PoE shows you this massive tree
But i think the way we fixed this in WotW with the sprit shards works much better
I was almost 100% sure that this wouldn’t be a hard-locked class system, but now we have your confirmation.
I’d also like to mention that I’m one of those players stuck with the same weapon since the beginning, and I’ve experienced the same in all Souls games, playing New Game+10 just to be able to equip and enjoy all kinds of weapons. (I do this only for single-player mode, as the ultimate endgame before dropping the game.)
Nunchuck, Bo Staff, whip, trick bag, etc…
Can’t wait to try them all !
As for casual players, we should also think about a way to make them parry and dodge in (instead of moving away).
Even if I admit barely using parry with pugilist while using it almost all the time with my heavy fighter.
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Interested in seeing how this shakes out. I’ve always enjoyed the stat system, but I’m happy to try a different direction. Combat definitely needs a balance pass and if this class system is implemented it will be the perfect excuse to fine tune everything. Hopefully it makes balance easier on the dev team.
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Yes, but that’s not really to do with the topic. Afaik he wants to hear about our class fantasies, not our rune fantasies 
Okay cool, but what does all this mean? How does this impact loot? Is loot now class specific? Is choice now tied to my class? How are classes chosen, can you switch class? How big of a commitment is this? That’s a lot of different classes 
So, because some people are lazy or not sufficiently interrested, you bring a system that put automatically the stats points each level you get ?
As an old player I must say that I didn’t like that… Can we still have the option to play an “ADVENTURER” that still have the choice to put is point wherever we like ? I want to be able able to brick my character as i like 
!
(think to it as the No Profession class in the old Rolemaster TTRPG)
Thank you!
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"So far, I have yet to read comment that makes me go: “Oh yeah, good point, the new system wouldn’t cover this.” "
Because unfortunatly you weren’t clear on what classes are.
What you said now is way more important and reassuring, and I agree with the restringness of attribute a la souls.
I strongly recommend you put this in your first post or in a new one so people see it and don’t freak out about the potential restrictiveness of a class system.
Anyway, great job on the game so far, so least I can do is give you and your team my thanks for the formidable game so far and gove you the benefice of doubt!
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I Like the sound of the classes, curious to see the whole systems in action once its finished
All the classes now have a main weapons attached to them, So I assume offhand weapons will later be added? Or do you have another idea how to implement offhands into the system?
I like this idea. Its about what weapons you want to go with, and also provides a bit of choice if you want to go a different weapon(you can swap to some few weapons with still same requirment), cause you are kinda locked(at start at least) with your attribute choice. This will provide clear instruction of what to spec if you want to go with this kind of weapons. I really dislike the thing that its now in game - I want to play for example greatswords, but I find one with str requirment, next with str+dex and another with just faith. That doesnt make much sence.
Regarding the future class system design in No Rest for the Wicked, the current class setup is incredibly diverse. However, I have a few questions:
- If a player has already chosen a specific class, how can they switch to another class? Will players still use Fallen Embers to reset their attributes?
- For future class system updates, will there be any progress resets (e.g., account wipes)?
I’ve created a video explaining the class system breakdown and uploaded it to Bilibili. Here’s the video link: [【【好了】恶意不息-官方披露-职业划分】 【好了】恶意不息-官方披露-职业划分_游戏杂谈]. You can also review more player comments there for additional feedback.
The problem with feeling of lock down to attributes, is caused by the str,dex,int and faith not doing anything except weapon scaling thus feeling meaningless and constraining.
If those attributes gave secondary statistics like health, stamina, focus, regeneration, load etc. the playstyle would have a chance to evolve based on the evolving needs.
In the class list I don’t see Health, Stamina or Focus as part of the archetype, so I hope they got integrated into the Strenght, Intelligence, Dexterity and Faith, if so then great.
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Admittedly I’ve felt pretty skeptical of this idea, but I will wait and see before passing judgment. I have confidence Moon knows what they’re doing.
That said, I think one of my reflexive issues with the idea of classes, and something I haven’t seen brought up much, is it feels like it clashes narratively with the phenomenal world they’ve built here. We’re a Cerim, not a barbarian, or a monk, or a wizard, right?
This setting is so interesting and unique, it would be such a shame to fall back to generic dnd tropes for something so central to the player character. I hope they’ve thought of this and the example names are just placeholder. There’s an opportunity with classes to expand on what we actually are in the world.
I absolutely adore this game even in unfinished EA state, and I truly hope they stick the landing. Wicked is something special.
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