This is a pre-made attribute system, so people that cannot read and think cannot hurt themselves.
You have simple and elegant system now. This one doesn’t change or improve anything besides hiding those attributes behind dozens of “classes”. And potentially further limits significantly players depending on what else is going to be hidden and put on rails behind those classes.
It’s a step backwards, not forwards.
Personally i much prefer any calss system(even a “soft” system like souls, when you decide an initial class but you can do what u want in the end), so i am pretty happy to see this!
And for those worried that this will lock or limit the player agency… i dont think so, thomas say pretty clear that will be the opposite ahah.
I don’t understand the point of this. You have more freedom with the current system compared to what you are proposing. One example is, one of my builds that I play uses a wand and mesh armour. Originally, I planned to use half leather and half mesh for a balance elemental resistance and armor but there are so few elemental threats in end game that I opted for a mesh set but you don’t have that as an available “class”.
Your tweet “allows the player to only make good choices” is a premade class that’s what? will have 2,3,4 choices of what skills on a skill tree? At this rate, in my opinion, it’ll be better to preserve the attribute system and then just add a skill tree for passives and skills.
Base on your tweet this morning and then proposing this tells me, or at least, I interpret it as you yourself is not satisfied with the current attribute system. Maybe it’s too shallow for you and you wanted a more complex system and that is good but removing all that freedom in exchange for this is kinda idk.
P.S. There is literally an explanation of what particular stats add/do to your character when you press “I”.
If they keep what they said about the system previously talked they show a guideline in game on what can be used. Not that you choose and need to use that. The attribute system is more annoying than it is worth in any game I played. I will wait and see what we will be getting and for more information except this before I do any judgement.
No one prior to moon combined ARPG with this combat, so I trust them for now
Everyone seems to be freaking out meanwhile I’m super excited about all these new weapon types Thomas has mentioned.
Can’t wait to hear more about this new class/attribute system I’m intrigued!
As it is at the moment, stats feel kind of meaningless, simply gate keeping for weapons with no real class identity.
Difficult to say without more specific details. Will there be unique active and/or passive skills associated with the classes? For example, the Barbarian being able to dual-wield One Handed Axes by putting one in separate weapon slots on your character after allocating a specific perk, thereby “breaking” the conventional use case of a One Handed Axe? Or are we talking basic numerical advantages and other perks like the Barbarian builds an increased amount of Focus with their Axe hits and over a certain threshold of Focus, the Barbarian deals increased damage / has increased attackspeed, something akin to a “Frenzy” ability?
There is so much that could be done here and while I really like that possibility, I also really enjoy the current version of the game where you character is essentially a blank slate, shaped entierly by the gear you use and what abilities you imbue your gear with. If I want to wield a pair of daggers (or a dagger with a shield) with my full Plate gear, that should be possible even if I’m playing a Rogue (from your list above). Sure, there might be perks or passives that improve your use of Leather armor as a Rogue, but it definitely shouldn’t prohibit using any other kind of gear.
The biggest barrier as I see it right now when it comes to building a functional archetype / character is that it can be difficult to gauge how good certain weapons are because they quickly require quite a few levels of points invested into specific stats. On my current character, I happened to find a set of Brothers Keepers daggers right as I entered Mariner Keep and have been using them ever since, but there has been plenty of weapons throughout my play-through that I’ve wanted to try and see what they are like, but testing them is somewhat annoying because of the high stat requirements.
Either I want to see all stats have a general benefit besides their weapon associated stat, or change stat requirements.
If Dexterity would increase my attack speed or provide a chance to dodge ranged attacks by default, it would be an attractive stat even on a Strength based character. Vice-versa, Strength would make you deal more Poise damage, making staggers easier to inflict with the more finessse-oriented weapons in the game.
Just spit-balling here. I’m sure you guys have already discussed making many of these changes internally…
I don’t know how to even put that politely in words anymore, but the issue here is not that he doesn’t like current system, but that “players” with amoeba-level attention span are “bricking” their characters. And we cannot have that because the game has to be accessible.
On a more serious note this info is way too vague to give any in depth feedback. Generally I like the attribute system we have now but having build guides (classes) that give you suggestions where to put your points isnt a bad idea. Especially when you dont look at guides or wikis you generally dont know what weapons/builds exist and that can lead to the player hesitating on where to spec the character.
That can sting especially when a weapon drops that you vibe more with but it scales on something completely different then what youre currently have. So having those class guides from the start can give you a better overview on what to expect - wich is a good thing.
I also listened to the latest interview you gave at Zizaran’s channel. And in there you mentioned something about potentially having guilds for certain playstyles. I dont know how set in stone this is or if its just on the wishlist for now. But that sounds like a cool system that could enhance classes without making them too restrictive. For example, let the classes only be guidelines for specing without any consequences if you want to branch out (so a rogue could still spec into strength for example).
But if the player chooses they could join a guild to laserfocus on a specific playstyle. Maybe there could be guild specific benefits (for example maybe there is a unique weapon skill for daggers you can only get by joining a thieves/rogue guild).
But thats just me spinning yarn lol. Again there isnt much substance here. In general I would personally prefer classes being very open and maluable but some specific benefits closer to the endgame would be nice for rewarding themed builds imo
I know this isn’t the intention here BUUUT, I like the idea of character progression outside of items and levels. I LOVE talent trees, I really like ascendancies in PoE, what if these soft classes would also offer some sort of gameplay bonuses?
The idea is that you are free to allocate points anywhere you want, and you do have these classes as guidelines for people who don’t want to think about making their own custom build, but for characters that hit certain stat thresholds, they will be able to specialize in a specific class. FOR INSTANCE, if you have a total of 40 Dexterity, you can pick to be the Rogue class and you get a 30% backstab damage bonus, or you could pick to be a Ninja and you could get a 10% movement speed bonus. If say you have at least 20 in both Strength and Faith, you could choose to become a Paladin, getting 10% increased healing, or you could pick a Knight that gets 15% increased stamina recovery.
Things to keep in mind:
For less boring suggestions, you could say, have Ninjas not take any fall damage or take massively reduced fall damage, a Mystic may gain the ability to infuse any weapon he holds with a specific element, a Warlord may use a two handed weapon in one hand at the penalty of slightly less damage, freeing his offhand slot, a Mage may have their dodge replaced by a blink, a Reaper may use a certain amount of focus if available to revive on the spot when killed. Stuff like that. Obviously way harder to implement and to balance, yet more fun, imo. 
Great reference )
Thomas mentioned that Dev team looking at Ascended sub-classes in POE 2 as one of source of ideas.
Some deeper customization for class fantasy would be great.
For those who wish to be free to choice between current playstyles possible to add general “class” that just have what have now without any bonuses. Something similar I remember from old Nevewinter game series or DnD in general.
This could work if at any point the player can change to any starter class or similar level class. They’re already planning a guild system (notice how there are places in town like the church or the arena that are just waiting for an update to let you “join”) so it could be that you join the faith guild “church” and you have a list of classes to select. You get the basic gear for that class, and add anything else you gathered or crafted.
That way you can try any build or play style you want without any cost, and your only investment is leveling up and using the items you find. Because right now you can only try a class if you have the items, level, and attributes for it. I feel stuck with my current build even though I really like it, but if I wanted to try anything else I would need a full rework to get it up to speed and that just sucks to do.
But if you could very early on at the time you arrive at Sacrament be able to choose these classes, get some basic gear, and hit go right away it would be really fun. You could experiment all you want at early levels and only commit after getting a grasp on what you really like instead of hoping you get good random gear and working up from that.
can you give me a very quick breakdown how the ascended subclasses from poe work? Ive never really played Diablo or any other traditional arpg in depth - im usually more on the action side (bloodborne, monster hunter etc)
And yeah a generalist class would be nice. tho depending on how classes are actually implemented at a baseline it might not even be necessary
In my opinion, it was a mistake to frame this update to the class system as being about players making mistakes on the attributes. It has been a clear goal of the developers to implement something else than the attributes if you look carefully at the game design. Like it was only a stopgap system they could launch quickly before they could cook the real one. And now people are fixating on the comment about player mistakes instead of looking forward to the updates and how they could improve upon what’s already in the game. At some level it is true that bad reviews coming from players who brick themselves is a problem (especially if they are self publishing and depend on good opinions) but it’s a bad excuse when what they really wanted is a better system for a long time on that merit alone.
This looks so mind-meltingly AMAZING.
Can’t wait for dragoon and ninja and contortionist and witch and reaper and necromancer. So many cool classes!
Please consider Druid and Shaman! We need primalist/ nature based caster classes.
so kind of like sub/multi classing? yeah I could see this. Anything that gives some flavor and enhances class depth/fantasy is a win in my book.
Folks, this isn’t a detailed breakdown of the system yet - it’s literally just giving people a first idea of what the classes are that I’m thinking about and what weapon type / moveset they’ll have.
You’ll still be able to mix and match and you won’t be locked in
Will there be any flexibility towards changing completely your character’s build? I don’t like the idea of sticking to the same build for too long, especially when there are tons of weapons and runes to try and find your favorites.
I think the actual attribute system needs a rework but I don’t think making specific builds is the way, I personally prefer a mastery system, where you gain mastery xp based on the weapon you are currently using and there is a skill tree for every weapon type, I am referencing from the MMO New World.
Love the game, but going to be honest… I think the whole progression / scaling system needs to be overhauled and not just the attributes. While I agree the attributes needed an overhaul, I don’t quite think it was for the reason provided (people messing up) although I suspect that was true and should be avoided. However, the real issues in my mind are:
How is that freedom right now? You loot a 2H, oh it’s nice I will put 65 points in strength and then a bit of the utility ones and I’m good. Even in Elden ring it is boring, nobody plays Elden ring for their amazing attributes system.
Really good idea, go for it and we can still tweak in the future if people do not entirely vibe with it. Let’s test things.
