Dying from falling off ledges in the Crucible - too punishing

Wicked Feedback
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I dont think falling off the edge in the Crucible should end the run. Maybe just chip away some health and respawn you.

I think the way it is now is genuinely bad game design, in a way I haven’t felt in a long time.

When I fought Melania in Elden Ring, I though, gee, this is not made fair to the player. But it felt ok enough because it was optional, I have other unexplored fighting strategies, summons etc to try out if I wanted to, and getting hit by an attack I think has been programmed to come out a little to quick from what is humanly possible to react to, it didn’t mean death necessarily. I still had a fighting chance.

My issue in NRFTW and the crucible run is the disproportionate punishment to a small mis-step. Or even worse - as in my latest run: simple getting hit by a regular enemy with heavy knockback effects on their attack, on a very narrow platform which seemingly would have pushed me off the edge no matter where we would have been placed on that platform. What a weirdly placed difficulty spike that small fight was compared to everything else around in that room. Oh, and I happened to also have the power-up that would resurrect me when I died with 50% hp, but I guess death from falling off ledges is a special kind of death that gets punished EVEN harder, because that power-up didn’t not resurrect me. (This must be a bug, right?) Run ended after 20 minutes, 1 room away from boss. Fun? Did I think “oh no, I just have to be better next time”? No. I find this to be a stupid kind of challenge that doesnt belong in this game, which is plenty challenging already, without the occasional run-ending possibility to fall of the edge in a game that has a slightly depth deceiving isometric view. It all just stacks up and feels so incredibly unrewarding and frustrating.

I have now tried the Crucible run 4 times, 3 of which as had ended with me falling off. The first time was at the very final boss (didnt even register that it was possible to fall off until off I went), the second was an attempted jump over a chasm that failed cus I ran a bit incline towards the edge, and the last as mentioned above. Got hit by a regular attack from a regular monster, and wasn’t even saved by my ressurrection power-up. All those seconds strategizing when choosing my power-ups to prepare me for hard battles seems so wasted when the most dangerous thing in the Crucible run is platforming related. I mean - there is a design flaw here.

For anyone wanna comment “get good” - then you have missed my point. I get that with time and effort I will learn the different monsters and their knockback effects, try ranged builds instead of mele on small platforms because I have that second main hand and enough equip load to carry it, learn to look for ledges while fighting and run more straight towards places to jump etc etc. But my point here is that this learning curve is not something I find very fun, which is emphasized by what I think is disproportionate punishment for mistakes. So while I wouldn’t mind not worrying at all about falling of ledges in a crucible run, if I am still being forced to take on that learning curve, I would suggest a health dip and respawn instead of perma death to make the punishment feel like it fits the crime - which is my main criticism.

And if I have one free resurrect on death, then damn it, give it to me when I die!

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I understand it’s frustrating; I always get a little stressed whenever I come across an area with empty space all around it.

I think what they could do atleast is make the revice echoe work for falling death.

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The stress depends, but sure yeah. It just seems the crucible run is made as a combat challenge - after all - all upgrades are combat or stats related. The end is a boss. Yet the biggest challenge for me thus far is platforming. Where are the upgrades to deal with this? That’s what I mean with the design critism. Why get upgrades for only half the challenge you know. That’s like playing mario and only gettin fireball and attack upgrades, and nothing for jumping and traversal. So where is my “air-walking for 2 seconds”, which lets you run off ledges without falling, giving you 2 seconds to get back on solid ground. Or “grappling hook”, with an action button reaction prompt that lets you pull yourself up right when you fall off. Or “invisible bouncy wall”, that pushes you back onto the platform when you are about to fall of a ledge, with only one or a few uses. Just thinking out loud.

4

I agree with this. It’s particularly vexing on Fast builds, where I might just misjudge the length of my own dash and slip right into one of the pits. It’s a boringly anti-climactic way to end a Crucible run, and it doesn’t feel like what should happen. I think losing health and respawning is a very fair punishment mechanic for it.

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As far as I’m in agreement, it seems they ran a poll on Discord about putting a fall-off guardrail and it was voted that there should not be anything.

Personally I have died to fall damage about 10 times more than enemies, sometimes while I’m running in Sacrament the slightest inclination towards a wall makes the character climb and immediately jump off the cliff while I watch impotent…

Having to slow walk everywhere just to avoid stupid fall damage is a deadly boring experience IMHO.

1 Like
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Sorry im gonna be “THAT Player” who rather ask how the Fight against Malenia in Elden Ring has any connection to falling off ledges?

You know how many who still to this day felt the fight against Margit in Elden Ring was bad game design because of falling off ledges.

(im not really sharing my personal opinions or well i could just say that i hate all kinds of Ledge Protection and that would probably sum up everything, So If i was to make a misstep off a Cliff i would rather have my character fall off the cliff rather than having a barrier that says “you cant fall off the cliff” )

Sorry not trying to be aggressive.. but its Hard to express with words in such a way so it doesnt sound so aggressive.
English is not my First language ^^

Not a bug! You know how it resurrect you in Place it never moves the player or teleport you to a specific location. So if you fell off a cliff it would then resurrect you at the bottom,
And that would mean you still would die in the Crucible because there is no way of getting up from those pits so you would be stuck and forced to exit.(if that ever happened then that would be a bug)
:innocent:

You have Played Elden Ring?
Instead of Deleting your experience from other games, bring that knowledge and experience into the next game to process the Learning curves faster in every new game that comes in the Here and now and for the future!:wink:

And dont be so hard on Yourself :heart:

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(post deleted by author)

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Too all your questions and comments in order:
1.The connection between my Melania example and falling of ledges in NRFTW is how difficulty is implemented in games.
2. Never said I want “ledge protection” like you are insinuating. I suggested less of a penalty to fall over it. Aka damage, not death. There are also many places where there are no ledges. That too is an option I hinted at.
3. Well if not a bug, then it can surely still be changed, in. my. opinion.
4. I am not deleting any past game exepriences? I have instead use one past experience as a reference in this post :S Learning curves are what they are, and I think the one you need to follow and master in NRFTW in order to not die from fall damage in crucible runs are boring. Not disregarding any past experience, just sharing that it isn’t fun (from my perspective.)

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I mean, hey, as far as pleasing everybody goes, it would be relatively simple (devs don’t hate me, I know everything us players talk about requires more work than we’re usually thinking of). Make a duplicate of each map in the Crucible, fill the gaps, and make that the default setting for lower difficulties. For higher difficulties, make the default setting the original maps with the holes.

Ultimately, if I’m outvoted, I’m okay with that.

But I will point out for others that this issue could be enough for non-hardcore players to bounce off the game. Perhaps the devs have already grappled with that, considering the poll. They’re certainly not hurting in sales or player count since the Together update, so there’s also that. But, in my opinion, it would be healthier long term to smooth out these friction points to keep the game inviting for more players. While hardcore players are obviously going to want more challenge, it’s more of a preference thing and far less likely to be an issue they quit the game over. Plus, more challenge is easy to introduce in a myriad of ways.

Also, I would be less put off by this issue if the maps and enemy selection were more clearly done in a way where the encounter design was very intentionally trying to teach you lessons about positioning. At current, with my experiences in the Crucible, I don’t think that’s really happened. It feels to me more like the enemy selection is incidental (further backed by the fact that they are basically randomized per chamber).

Anyway, just food for thought and personal opinion. I’m not interested in having a debate over it, as I don’t mind if other players like the pits and I’m not going to quit the game over it myself.

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  1. I see ^^

  2. I was just sharing my opinion and the important part of my opinion is “ So If i was to make a misstep off a Cliff i would rather have my character fall off the cliff rather than having a barrier that says “you cant fall off the cliff” “ and no im not insinuating that you want ledge protection.
    But here comes the “sneaky” problem, if you dont get so that the player is teleported to a specific location where it takes a bit of damage instead for falling off to your Death, then comes the next idea or alternative which could include “some type” of Guardrail or invisible wall/barrier without refering specifically to “ledge protection” that makes it so that you stay on the platform.

This is where we come to the GOOD part of this game that lets you choose a Difficulty Here i could accept all your idea’s and that’s where you would have to put them on the Lowest Difficulty Only!

  1. Surely^
  2. No you might have misinterpreted what i meant.. all i can say its not connected to the Experience you are refering to.. Its Experience connected to Tacit Knowledge and Embodied Knowledge not the knowledge that you would use to describe your playthrough and how you did certain things in the games.
    with more simple words i can say the “Know-how” :innocent:

Tacit Knowledge Its not something you can describe to 100% because if you could then we would be stuck inside your body and feel what you feel. :grin: